[Advaita-l] Ashtavakra Gita (formerly tradition and adwaita)

[K Kathirasan NCS]

Namaste Vishyji,

I have gone thru the Ashtavakra Samhita (or Gita) a couple of times. In
no way does that text contradict the Advaita Vedanta tradition as
presented by Amuthanji. Ashtavakra Samhita is not for a beginner of
Vedanta. It is meant for a seeker who has completed 1. Shravana and
conducting 2. Manana or 3. Nididhyasana. 

1. Shravana - Listening to the Advaita Siddhanta, rooted in the
Upanishads, as taught by a qualified Guru. A qualified Guru has to be a
shrotriya brahmanishta (versed in the Vedas & established in the
knowledge of Brahman). Such a Guru knows how to wield the methods
(prakriyas) such that the seeker's ignorance is removed adequately. I
would recommend you to look thru the first part (prose portion) of the
Upadesha Sahasri by Shankara. In this text you can see how the teacher
uses the Upanishads skilfully to reveal the knowledge of Atma = Brahman.


2. Manana - If the ignorance is not removed by Shravana, the seeker has
to do Manana. Here the knowledge gained in Shravana helps one to arrive
at the complete understanding of oneself. Manana can be termed as vicara
(enquiry) using the aids of logic and reasoning upon what has been
learnt during Shravana. Here the teacher may aid the seeker or can be
done independently with the knowledge gained from the Guru. Complete
Knowledge can also take place in this stage. 

3. Nididhyasana - This is for a seeker who is yet to gain the knowledge
from Manana. Nididhyasana is establishment of the knowledge of oneself
by removing habitual notions. In this stage, Ashtavakra Samhita can be
of a great help. Contemplation (nididhyasana) on the teachings of the
Samhita can be of a great help to remove all residual notions of the
non-self to abide in the Self. 

The above triple 'sadhana' need not be successive. Manana and
Nididhyasana can also happen at the same time while listening to the
teachings (shravana). The assimilation of knowledge also depends very
much on the preparedness (adhikara) of the seeker. However, to study the
Ashtavakra Gita before doing Shravana can pose a danger in assuming the
very means of knowledge (pramana), which is the words of the Upanishads,
to be unimportant. It would be like discarding the boat even before
crossing the river. 

Kathirasan 

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org] On Behalf Of
Viswanathan N
Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 12:59 PM
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] tradition and adwaita

Manishji
   
  Waht you said is absolutely true. Truth is beyond all bounds like
religion, culture , language or nation.
   "BhArat is everywhere...whoever loves wisdom is BhArat..... BhArat is
"BhAs iti rataha ...one who is dissolved in (in love with) wisdom
(awakening,truth,realization)"...very rightly said.
   
  Infact nothing to read or to know or acquire in the name of knowledge.
As it is you are there, but covered by so much of dust and dirt in the
name of knowledge/culture/religion etc...just drop them and see yourself
as pure and that is enlightenment....  to reach that stage we start
learning/doing all sorts of things (means) and unfortunately struck
there itself, further accumulting more and more dirt& dust and becomming
grosser and heavier.
   
  Request all the members to go thru " Ashtavakra Samhiti" ad that is
ultimate in this Jnana marga
 
   
  Pranams 
  Vishy

m w <all_discussions at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Gerji,

Wisdom reveals not through the scriptures but the one who studies them,
it is again not through the guru but the one who seeks, and the guru's
finger is a pointer and so are there endless pointers and none of them
is the goal in itself and can never be. If people are making advaita
into another religion or anything very crude and rigid set, into which
if one fits, only then one is an advaitin as they are often saying "HE
is advaitin and HE is not", then it is never so. An ocean has all kinds
of creatures, and it doesn't mean that those creatures who lie outside
the little pond of their imagination can not be in the ocean either. In
that they are totally mistaken and mislead.
There is no rigid set of beliefs or faiths that advaita proposes. It is
an ocean and it is the heart and destination of all rivers, be they from
christianity or islam or any other 'ity' or 'ism', be it theism,
pantheism, monism or atheism..... There is an advaitic truth on which
the whole advaita stands and that too supportless and from there
everything emanates, every relative truth or falsehood. Everything else
is relative and there can be two truths that are relative to the frame
of reference and together may seem paradoxical. The freeing process that
you are talking about here is what I use to call as reaching notionless
state where there is dissolution... 
Don't take anything as bound in some rigid boundaries when it comes to
advaita, Gerji. There are always people everywhere who make something
rigid out of everything, which is also ok. This is how it is with their
understanding!!! The way you understand advaita is perfectly fine.
Advaita is about "Wisdom"...call it knowledge....freedom...truth...
Ye be truth and everything will be taken care of.... 
No need to worry about anything. Ages have passed, things are going on
and on like this, what will your concern do. Islam is suffering because
of few people and so is christianity and every other so-called religion.
Everyone is not like that, but only few... There is no religion apart
from spirtuality and once spritiuality ensues, there advaita IS, to
which one comes only after awakening, before that, if someone does
something in sleep, in a sleeping state, how much is one to be blamed. 
Truth frees, and if you want to give it a name, call it Advaita or what
else....These are names...what good is in binding oneself with
them....those who are bound will come out of it some day, if not
now....There is nothing that comes specifically from so called physical
"BhArat" (India in English)....BhArat is everywhere...whoever loves
wisdom is BhArat..... BhArat is "BhAs iti rataha ...one who is dissolved
in (in love with) wisdom (awakening,truth,realization)"... 

Pranaams
Manish









Ger Koekkoek wrote:
This discussion about adwaitic tradition might be a bit upside down.
The goal of this tradition and it's guru's is, as far as I understood
it:
To free your attention, awareness, alertness, or the I-sense, whatever
you may call it, from anything it feels attracted to, and once it is
free, to turn it inwards to it's own source, or to say this with other
words, to stop it from wandering around and let it rest in itself.
But this process of freeing our attention can be very complex and
dangerous, and it is very difficult to do it on your own.
Of course it is very useful, if you go this way, to have a guru. Then
you don't have to recover the wheel again. (Sometimes the use of a
metaphor can be very short without being less logical.) It takes perhaps
a whole live to recover this magnificent instrument again, while a
teacher can explain the principle of the wheel in 5 minutes.
Of course a guru can be important, but not in an absolute way. Brahman
is "what is", and this implifies that any creature that is starting to
study on his own being can find Brahman.
Of course your tradition is very important, has some aspects in it, had
recovered some spiritual wheels that are very much needed in modern
times, otherwise, when I did not thought so, why else should I be in
this traditional minded mail-ring as a European?
But when you interpret your tradition in an absolute way, like the Islam
does with the Koran, and Christianity does with the bible, well, if you
allow me to say so as an outsider, then you act perhaps even against the
means of adwaita itself! 
The goal is: to free the I-sense form everything it feels bounded to,
and then to turn it inwards to it's own source.
In fact this goal is very simple, it only needs sometimes complex
philosophies, and other methods like bhakti, course we as human beings
feel bounded to many matters in a complex and very often even fanatic
way. 
But when you talk about your tradition in an absolute way, well, then
your I-sense is bound by this tradition!
And that is, I'm afraid to say so, upside down, according to adwaita.
You feel bound to some traditions around adwaita, which is contradicting
with the means of adwaita itself, which has as a goal to free your
attention from anything it feels bound to, so that it will be able to
look inwards.

With greetings,
Ger


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