[Advaita-l] Free will and Karmaphala

[Dr. V. Prasanna Shrinivas]

Namaste

The seemingly difficult riddle has been explained and solved by H H
Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati Mahaswamiji. May I draw your attention to
the article

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/The_Riddle_of_Fate_and_Free.htm

This has also been published in the book "Dialogues with the Jagadguru"

Sadguro saranam

On 9/13/07, Dilip Dhopavkar <dilip.dhopavkar at gmail.com> wrote:
> I dont think  man has a free will at all. Man can have a free will , only
> when he is free. What we call normally a free will is only an illusory
> entity. The delusion that we have a free will is the product of Maya.
>
> This is graphically illustrated in the life of SriRamakrishna. His encounter
> with Totapuri is an indication that there is no free will. Totapuri was a
> Brahmvid , but when he was inflicted by a terrible pain in the stomach, he
> decided to sacrifice his body , to which he had no attachment. He could not
> do it, even when he willed it. The state of   body consciousness ,was
> brought  on by the power of Maya and he was subjected to the illusion of
> free will.
>
> As a footnote I may  that , in the state that the  Brahmajnani is in , he is
> not aware that he has a free will, because there is no consciousness of
>  duality between free will and bondage.
>
> Dilip Dhopavkar
>
> On 9/12/07, advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org <
> advaita-l-request at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> wrote:
> >
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. The fact of existance (Kris Manian)
> >   2. Discussion on "Vidya" (srikanta at nie.ac.in)
> >   3. Adi Sankaracharya's Nirguna Manasa Puja (Sriram Krishnamurthy)
> >   4. Free will Versus Karma Phala (Vishwanathan Raman)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 11:25:29 -0800
> > From: Kris Manian <krismanian at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Advaita-l] The fact of existance
> > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > Message-ID: <46E6EBA9.8070502 at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Thanks for the thesis like post on existence. I have a few questions
> > especially about cycle of birth-re birth
> >
> > ?        Even at death this ?mind? doesn?t get dissolved as other
> > components of the body (as long ^^^ its not >empty).Unfortunately, this body
> > can not continue to exist that longer to fulfill all these endless desires,
> > so the mind >takes another body to get them fulfilled. But, since the
> > desires keep growing, this cycle of leaving one body and acquiring >another
> > continue(s) endlessly. This is called Birth-Death- Rebirth.
> >
> > As per the above, then the desires a man develops can only be completed if
> > he is born as a man again and so is the case with women. This means that the
> > man/women proportions will remain constant for ever.
> >
> > Also, animals and inanimate things like rocks do not have desires and they
> > do their karma much more perfectly than humans. So they will not be born
> > again or in the worst case they will be born the same species, for example a
> > tiger in pursuit of its prey falls and dies, so due to its desire will be
> > born again as a tiger or a similar one that eats the same kind of prey. But
> > animal lives are totally in the hands of humans as they can destroy or
> > selectively multiply animal species, for example growing a whole lot of
> > cattles like cows, goats, chickens etc. and killing elephants, tigers for
> > game or money.
> >
> > The human population keeps growing does not jibe with this theory unless
> > we say that the soul with the mind sub divides
> > and some desires of man can still be completed as a women, some by animals
> > and some by inanimates. Are there indications of this theory in
> > shruti/smrithis?
> >
> > thanks
> > Kris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 11:11:35 +0530 (IST)
> > From: srikanta at nie.ac.in
> > Subject: [Advaita-l] Discussion on "Vidya"
> > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > Message-ID: <4644.122.167.149.99.1189575695.squirrel at mail.nie.ac.in>
> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
> >
> > This has reference to Sri.Guy Werling's Email on the terms "Vidya" and
> > 'Jnana".Sri.Shankara in his Bhashyas distinguishes between "Vidya" and
> > "Jnana".By "Vidya" he means "Upasana",which is still "Dvaita Bhava",where
> > the worshipper takes the form of the "Diety" he worships,and by "Jnana" he
> > means that which is generated by Sruthi.There is a detail discussion on
> > the topic towards the end of the Isavasyopanishad and also in
> > Chandogyopanishad.
> >                                                       N.Srikanta.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:52:04 +0530
> > From: "Sriram Krishnamurthy" <asksriramjobs at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Advaita-l] Adi Sankaracharya's Nirguna Manasa Puja
> > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        <3724d9b40709120322h1bf178f6l628eeeb926ca2e7a at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > *Adi Sankaracharya's
> > Nirguna Manasa Puja*
> > Worship of the Attributeless Spirit
> > *Translated by Swami Yogananda Sarasvati*
> > E-Text Source: Advaita Vedanta
> > Library<http://www.geocities.com/advaitavedant/index.htm>
> >
> > The disciple said:
> > 1. In the indivisible Satchidananda whose nature is only unconditioned,
> > and
> > which is also the non-dual state, how is worship prescribed?
> > 2. Where is the invocation (avahana) of the Fullness, and the seat (asana)
> > of the All-supporting How is there washing of the feet (padya), offering
> > of
> > water (arghya) and sipping (achamana) for the limpid and Pure One?
> > 3. How is there bathing (snana) for the Immaculate, and clothing (vasa)
> > for
> > the womb of the universe? How is there a sacred thread (upavita) for Him
> > who
> > is without lineage and caste?
> > 4. How is there sandal paste (gandha) for the Unattached, and flowers
> > (pushpa) for the Odorless? What is the jewel (bhusha) of the
> > Undifferentiated? What ornament (alamkara) for the Formless?
> > 5. What use of incense (dhupa) for the Spotless, or of lamps (dipa) for
> > the
> > Witness of everything? What is here the food-offering (naivedyam) for Him
> > who is satiated only with His own bliss?
> > 6-7. How does one prepare betel (tambula) for the Rejoicer of the
> > universe?
> > He whose nature is self-luminous consciousness, that Illuminator of the
> > sun
> > and other stars, who is sung by `shrutis', how is there for Him the light-
> > waving ceremony (nirajana) What circumambulation (pradakshina) for the
> > Infinite? What prostration (pranama) for the non-dual Reality?
> > 8. For Him who is unknowable by the words of the Vedas, what praise
> > (stotra)
> > is prescribed? How is there the ceremony of dismissal (udavasana) for Him
> > who is established inside and outside?
> >
> > The Guru said:
> > 9. I worship the symbol of the Self (atmalinga) shining like a jewel and
> > situated in the heart-lotus within the city of illusion, with the
> > ablutions
> > (abhisheka) of the unsullied mind from the river of faith, always, with
> > the
> > flowers of samadhi, for the sake of non-rebirth.
> > 10. `I am the One, the Ultimate'. Thus one should invoke (avahayet) Lord
> > Siva. Then one should prepare the seat (asana) , that is thinking of the
> > self-established Self.
> > 11. `I have no contact with the dust of virtue and sin.' Thus should the
> > wise one offer washing of the fet (padya), that is such knowledge
> > destroying
> > all sins.
> > 12. One should pour forth tha handful of water which is the root-
> > ignorance
> > held from time without beginning. This is verily the water- offering
> > (arghya) of the symbol of the Self.
> > 13. `Indra and other beings drink only the tiny fraction of a drop from
> > the
> > waves of the bliss ocean of Brahman.' That meditation is considered as the
> > sipping (achamana).
> > 14. `All the worlds are bathed verily by the water of Brahma's bliss which
> > is indivisible.' That meditation is the ablution (abhishechana) of the
> > Self.
> > 15. `I am the light of Consciousness without any veil'. This thinking is
> > the
> > holy cloth (sad vastram) of the symbol of the Self. Thus should think the
> > wise one.
> > 16. `I am the thread of the garland of all the worlds which are in the
> > nature of the three gunas'. This conviction is verily considered here as
> > the
> > highest sacred thread (upavIta).
> > 17. `This manifold world mingled with numerous impressions is supported by
> > me, and by no other'. This meditation is the sandal paste (chandana) of
> > the
> > Self.
> > 18. With the sesamum-flowers in the form of renunciation of the activity
> > of
> > sattva, rajas, and tamas, one should always worship (yajet) the symbol of
> > the Self, for attaing liberation while living.
> > 19. With the non-dual Bel leaves devoid of the triple distinction between
> > the Lord, the guru, and the Self, one should worship (yajet) Lord Siva
> > that
> > is symbol of the Self.
> > 20. One should think of His incense (dhupa) as the giving up of all
> > impressions. The wise one should show the lamp (dipa) that is the
> > realization of the luminous Self.
> > 21. The food-offering (naivedyam) of the symbol of the Self is the big
> > rice
> > pudding known as the egg-universe of Brahma. Do drink the sweet nectar of
> > bliss that is the delightful beverage (upasechana) of Mrityu or Lord Siva.
> > 22. One should remember that cleansing the remnants of ignorance with the
> > water of knowledge, is the washing of hands (hasta prakshalana) of the
> > pure
> > symbol of the Self.
> > 23. Giving up the use of the objects of passion, this is the chewing of
> > betel (tambula) of Lord Siva, the supreme Self who is devoid of the
> > attributes beginning with passion.
> > 24. Knowledge on one's own nature of Brahman, most shining, and burning to
> > destruction the darkness of ignorance, that is here the waving of lights
> > (nirajana) of the Self.
> > 25. The vision of the manifold Brahman is the ornament (alamkritam) with
> > garlands. Then one should remember the vision of the all- blissful nature
> > of
> > the Self, as the handful of flowers. (pushpanjali).
> > 26. `Thousands of Brahma's mundane eggs revolve in me, the Lord, whose
> > nature is immovable and steady like a heap.' This meditation is the
> > circumambulation (pradakshina).
> > 27. `I am verily worthy of a universal salutation. Apart from my true
> > Self,
> > none is so worthy of salutation.' This reflection is verily here the
> > salutation (vandana) of the symbol of one's own Self.
> > 28. The idea of the unreality of duties is termed as the saintly act (sat
> > kriya) of the Self. Thinking of the Self as being beyond names and forms,
> > this is the praise of his name (nama kirtana).
> > 29. The hearing (shravana) of that God is the thought of the unreality of
> > things to be heard of. The reflection (manana) of the symbol of the Self
> > is
> > the thought of the unreality of things to be reflected on.
> > 30-31. Knowledge of the unreality of things to be contemplated upon, is
> > the
> > deep meditation (nididhyasana) of the Self. Devotedness to the Self by the
> > absence of all delusion and distraction, is named the perfect steadiness
> > (samadhi) of the Self; and not delusion of one whose mind rests on
> > something
> > else. This is called the eternal reposeof the mind (chitta vishranti) in
> > Brahman itself.
> > 32-33. Thus performing till death or even for a moment this worship of the
> > symbols of one's own Self, which is expounded according to Vedanta, one
> > who
> > is well concentrated should give up the illusion of all bad impressions,
> > as
> > dust from the feet. Having shaken off the mass of ignorance and pain, one
> > attains the bliss of liberation.
> >
> > || Om Tat Sat ||
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 22:09:42 +0530
> > From: "Vishwanathan Raman" <raman.vishwanathan at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Advaita-l] Free will Versus Karma Phala
> > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        <fe05d45a0709120939x15d39677gf50cb3bad6653418 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Pranams,
> >
> > I have a doubt lingering for sometime now and I am now posting it to this
> > list hoping that some of the learned members will help me with my
> > understanding. Whatever I have stated below is based on my understanding
> > of
> > the Karma theory, and so if there are any flaws in it, I request you to
> > correct me.
> >
> > According to the Karma theory, every experience an individual experiences
> > in his life is a result of his actions (either in the past or present
> > life).
> > There is a bank of Karma phala waiting for fructification (Sanchita) and
> > those that have fructified for the present birth is known as Prarabhdha
> > Karma. Those that are earned in the present birth is known as Agami Karma
> > (and may fructify either in the present birth or in the future births).
> >
> > Further every human being is also endowed with a free will which allows
> > him
> > to choose the type of karma that he wishes to perform, with good karmas
> > earning him punya while the bad karmas earn him a paapa.
> >
> > For e.g. lets taken an incident such as a terrorist attack. In this case
> > the result of actions of a few set of people is causing grief to lot of
> > people. I have difficulty in understanding such incidences. Is it that the
> > attack serve as a means to distribute the Karma Phala of the individuals
> > (victims) concerned. [similar to what happens during natural calamities].
> >
> > If so then the attackers have only been an instrument in the hands of the
> > Lord to give the karma phala to the individuals concerned (nimitta matram
> > bhava savyasachin B.Gita Ch.11-V.33) and no papam should accrue to them.
> >
> > But clearly this defies logic, as even in the case of a individual
> > committing suicide, papam accrues to the person, since he is abusing his
> > freewill. Thus the act of terrorism can only be an act that abuses
> > freewill.
> > But then how does one explain the suffering undergone by people who are
> > affected by such acts.
> >
> > I don't have problem understanding suffering caused due to events such as
> > natural disasters, suffering caused to diseases, or events that happen to
> > which prior motive cannot be attributed (like accidents etc). But when
> > willfull action by an individual causes harm to others, I am unable to
> > understand / explain it using the karma theory.
> >
> > Shree Gurubhyo Namaha ||
> >
> > -Viswanathan.R
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
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> > End of Advaita-l Digest, Vol 53, Issue 12
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