[Advaita-l] Discussion on the role of Yoga in Adwaita

[Bhaskar YR]

sAshtAnga praNAms Sri Vidya prabhuji
Hare Krishna

I dont want to be too much argumentative in this issue with your goodself
prabhuji..as you know whatever little knowledge I've today in advaita
vEdAnta is the result of advaita seed that you have gracefully implanted
longtime back..Here I would like to share my thoughts bluntly & this is my
last post on this topic, I shall take your words in reply as final.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

1. The distinction between yogic dhyAna and vedAntic dhyAna is more
academic than one of practice.

bhaskar :

But prabhuji, as per my understanding, yOgic dhyAna is more of purusha
taNtra in nature which has been quitely distinct from vastu tantra vEdAntic
manana & nidhidhyAsana.


Sri Vidya prabhuji :

2. Sankara bhagavatpAda himself accepts and subsumes yogic techniques and
teachings inasmuch as they serve as a means to Atma-darSana. By his own
description, this is because the yoga darSana is close to the
upanishadic darSana (pratyAsatteH - sUtrabhAshya 2.1.3). It is accepted
where it is not in direct conflict
in vedAnta (yena tv aMSena na virudhyete tena .... sAMkhya-yoga-smRtyoH
sAvakASatvam - sUtrabhAshya 2.1.3).

bhaskar :

Here I think punch word is aMSena...shankara never ever rejects siddhAnta
of other smruti texts that go in line with vEda-s...paramataM
apratishiddham anumataM bhavati..is the assurance of Sankara..yOga is *para
mata* and cannot be on par with vEda, however, shankara says here eka dEsha
of these smruti texts (like sAnkhya, yOga) etc. are pramANa-s if it goes in
line with vEda-s..But prabhuji, importantly shankara in this sUtra itself
(etEna yOgaH pratyuktaH) comments & declares that neither sAnkhya jnAna nor
vEda viruddha yOga are the direct means to mOksha. As you know, in this
sUtra shankara elaborately discusses how sAnkhya & yOga smruti texts goes
against vEda with regard to jagatkAraNa vAda.  If I am right here only
shankara says *dvaitinO hi te sAnkhyAH yOgAscha na Atmaikatva darshinaH*

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

3. Therefore, it follows that yoga can lend itself to vastu-tantra
AtmadarSana also.

bhaskar :

I am surprised to see this assertion from your goodself prabhuji.  By yOga
if you meant here patanjala yOga, then I may have to beg your pardon to
disagree..since shankara himself clearly says sAnkhya/yOga is not a means
for liberation.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

However, being an action, the doer cannot really modify its end result. The
choice
of the doer relates only to the action, not to its result. Having chosen
to act or not
act or to act otherwise, the doer cannot simply choose to modify the end
result at
a later stage.

bhaskar :

But here the doer would have the control over the end result...he can fix
the time to come back from nirvikalpa samAdhi (kindly refer recent posting
on nirvikalpa samAdhi & its experience by HH Sri Sri Abhinava
vidyAtIrtha)..Since the dhyAna & resultant samAdhi is at the hands of doer,
he can always able to fix a time frame for that...Now, the question is can
this be applied to Atma darshana saMyag jnAna also prabhuji??  can I have
saMyak darshana two hours & later come out of that trance and be a normal
loukika ajnAni?? Kindly pardon me prabhuji, no pun intended here...this is
my genuine doubt..Again, if I start my action towards the prophitiation of
durga mAta, though I am not able to modify the end result, the end result
would be according to my action..I cannot have shiva bhagavaan darshan by
any means :-)) whereas in vastu tantra jnAna I cannot will & wish to have
the experience of *cold* fire or *black* milk, I've to get the knowledge of
those things *as it is*..shankara makes this distinction amply clear in
tattusamanvayAt sUtra bhAshya.

Sri Vidya prabhuji:


4. From the perspective of the sincere mumukshu, the question of kartum
akartum anyathA kartuM resolves itself quite easily. Any intellectual
activity is a mAnasa kriyA, including that of analyzing upanishad
sentences. dhyAna is
not a special mental action in this respect. There is therefore no need to
specially reject yoga in this context.

bhaskar :

No prabhuji, nobody is rejecting yOga as a *separate* shAstra here. It has
its own efficacy in its own domain..But when it comes to vEdAntic
deliberations, shankara clearly distinguishes dhyAna from jnAna & clearly
declares dhyAna is mAnasa kriya whereas jnAna is NOT mAnasakriya but vastu
tantra...(nanu jnAnaM nAma mAnasI kriyA?? *NA*, vailakshaNyAt kriyA hi nAma
sA yatra vastu svarUpa nirapekshaiva chOdyate purushachitta vyApArAdhInA
cha...On the other hand shankara says dhyAnaM chintanaM yadyapi
mAnasaM...shankara in tattusamanvayaat sUtra bhAshya) Again this jnAna is
neither a kriya nor a result of it..Hence, Sankara says  *na yatnAtara
prasAdhyaM* phalAntarAbhAvAt jnAnamAtrameva*

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

5. What bhagavatpAda's own attitude towards yoga was can be gauged from
the words of his direct disciple, sureSvarAcArya, who puts yogAbhyAsa at an
intermediate stage between sarva-karma-tat-sAdhana-saMnyAsa and
tattvamasy Adi vAkyArtha parijnAnam. As such, the sannyAsi in the advaita
vedAnta
tradition, from the earliest days in known history, has incorporated a vast
amount
of yoga practice and experience in his life.

bhaskar :

I think we have discussed this point during the discussion on authorship of
vivEkachUdaamaNi. If yOga is advised even after shAstra or vAkya janita
jnAna then shAstra cannot be an antya pramANa...I think we have discussed
the context of this verse.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

This is an important point to be noted by those who instinctively reject
any usage of the words, yoga or dhyAna or samAdhi, in a generic sense by
later
advaitins.

bhaskar :

Again, issue here is not about mere usage of words but its undue linking
with dvaita yOga shAstra.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

If one has an open mind, one will realize that the traditional keepers of
the advaita tradition have been quite true to Sankara bhagavatpAda's
teachings.

bhaskar :

Yes prabhuji, IMHO it requires some kind of open mindedness & courage to
think out of the boundaries put by vyAkhyAnakAra-s to understand the true
teachings of bhagavatpAda & to maintain that clarity  & prestine purity of
shankara's absolute non-dual advaita siddhAnta, there is noway for us but
to *goback* to mUla bhAshya.

Anyway, above is strictly my opinion others are welcome to disagree with
me.

Your humble servant
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar