[Advaita-l] Meditation Vs nitya karma

[Marko Gregoric]

Dear friends!
I can find no way to believe that there is a mind at all. I can repeat
what people say about this idea but sincerely I don't believe it.
Everything except the unconditioned being are just ideas. We can talk
about them forever but I sincerely can't see the point of such
discussion. Whatever idea or concept arises and dissapears doesn't
really change reality. Even the idea of the body is no exeption. Isn't
it true that the body is made of scientific, religious and/or
philosophical concepts? Without names and concepts which are the fuel
of every discussion, what is really there to discuss about?

Thank you
Marko

On 10/21/08, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Marko,
>
> In a discussion like this, one can write only from the standpoint of the
> mind-body apparatus. One just has to always remind oneself of this, that is
> all.
>
> Although you say that the body and mind work spontaneously, you seem to
> assume that the mind is in a more powerful position, so much so that
> anything that controls the mind is viewed by you as a creation of the mind.
> You then speak of an entity that controls both, and your words indicate that
> in your view, this controlling entity is not the true Self. Who or what is
> this mind-created controller then?
>
> In the gItA, it is said, Atmaiva hyAtmano bandhur Atmaiva ripur AtmanaH -
> one is one's own best friend and also one's own worst enemy. The mind leads
> itself astray and is also expected to control itself. And there is the
> underlying Self. There is no other independent entity that seeks to control
> the body and mind. The true Self is beyond the mind and need not care
> whether it is controlled or is running amok. The only one who cares is the
> one who misidentifies with the mind that is running amok and thereby shuts
> the door on knowing the true Self. So long as this misidentification
> persists, one talks of controlling the mind, not otherwise. Now, who is this
> one who should care? In practical terms, it is the human being, composed of
> the body and mind and all their ancillaries. All talk of sAdhana,
> meditation, performance of karmA where appropriate, etc is done only from
> this practical angle.
>
> When a man's body is on fire, and seeks help to put it out, one does not
> need to remind him that his true Self cannot be burnt by the fire. A good
> response would be to first put out the fire. A similar first response is
> necessary when the mind is on fire.
>
> Regards,
> Vidyasankar> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:55:54 +0200> From:
> markogregori at gmail.com> To: sivasenani at yahoo.com;
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Meditation Vs
> nitya karma> > Dear friends> You all write from the standpoint of the
> body-mind apparatus. Who or> what is the entity which can possibly control
> the mind and which is> not itself a creation of mind?> The body-mind works
> by itself, spontaneously. Nothing can control> that. You are not the body
> nor the mind nor the entity which controls> both.> Agree?> > > On 10/18/08,
> sivasenani at yahoo.com <sivasenani at yahoo.com> wrote:> > Dear Sri Amuthan,> >>
>> Very well said. I initially thought Sri Narayanan's question was specious.
> I> > mean one is not going levitate, right?> >> > However your response
> opened my eyes.> > Demonstrated control of the mind is the sure pointer of
> progress. Not merely> > in the spiritual path but in all walks of life as
> well. As phala stuti, we> > can say: to the one who has controlled his mind
> accrue wealth, health,> > friends, joy, peace and liberation.> >> > Senani>
>>> > Sent from BlackBerry(R) on Airtel> >> > -----Original Message-----> >
> From: Amuthan <aparyap at gmail.com>> >> > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2008 11:54:46> >
> To: <z1e1b1r1a at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita> >
> Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw:
> Re: Meditation Vs nitya karma> >> >> > Dear SrI Narayan Iyer,> >> > On Wed,
> Oct 15, 2008 at 8:18 PM, narayan iyer <z1e1b1r1a_at_yahoo.com>> > wrote:>
>>>> I have always been wanting to ask this question. How does> >>> the
> process of chitta suddhi works? What are the symptoms> >>> that show me
> conclusively that I am making some progress at> >>> least? How do I know
> that my mind is not deluding me into> >>> believing I am ascending in the
> spiritual progress?> >>>> >>> Can you please point any pointers that can
> help me> >>> bench-mark my progress?> >> > Fundamentally, any aSuddhi in the
> mind comes into being because of> > avidyA. Though avidyA itself cannot be
> directly perceived, its effects> > can be immediately recognized in its
> triple manifestation as rAga,> > dvesha and moha. So one's cittaSuddhi can
> most easily be understood by> > noticing how the mind reacts to various
> external events. Whether the> > progress is in the right direction can be
> understood if the history of> > the mind's reaction over a period of time is
> analyzed. As long as the> > mind tends towards a reduction of these kleSa-s
> one can be content> > that the progress is in the right direction. Though
> this is easier> > said than done, it is (imho) the only means to
> unambiguously see the> > effect of any form of vedAnta SravaNa or vaidika
> dharmAnushThAna or> > dhyAna or whatever activity for that matter that we
> perform, on our> > mind.> >> > Of the three, the most difficult aspect to
> study is moha since unlike> > rAga and dvesha which arise from sukha and
> duHkhAnubhava-s and are> > accompanied by a variety of observable mental and
> physical reactions,> > moha doesn't have any easily observable mental or
> physical correlate.> > It is precisely here that the mind can be deluded
> about its own> > progress since it is easy to wrongly attribute a state of
> calm that> > arises due to certain special external factors to some progress
> in> > cittaSuddhi. To elaborate, even when the mind is very calm, what lie>
>> dormant are a variety of deeply ingrained self-opinions and habitual> >
> tendencies (vAsanAs). When it so happens that some external factors> > are
> condusive to a peaceful mental state (as say due to proper> > prANAyAma or
> some sAlambana dhyAna or the acquistion of desired> > objects or laziness
> and sleep (!) etc.) these views and tendencies go> > entirely unnoticed and
> worse, do not get destroyed. And these are the> > culprits who stir up the
> mind with further suffering when the> > intrinsic impermanence of mental and
> physical events destroys those> > special external factors that led to the
> state of calm in the first> > place. The only way to destroy these is by the
> j~nAna that arises upon> > proper tattva vicAra.> >> > Useful and exhaustive
> description of the citta that is fit for> > brahmajij~nAsa and the
> appropriate means to train the citta can be> > found in innumerable places
> in the gItA whenever KRshNa talks of> > sattva guNa or the qualities of
> sthitapraj~na-s or in the yoga sUtra-s> > or in prakaraNa grantha-s like
> vivekacUDAmaNi.> >> > Amuthan.> >
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