[Advaita-l] Yajna and Homa
Michael Shepherd
michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk
Tue Aug 4 06:16:33 CDT 2009
Dear Sunilji,
Thank you for that ! I guess that DNA testing will sort this out for once and for all some time soon, so we can drop the 'blame game' !
Perhaps the Native Tribes will be DNA'd to see if they are even more ancient Indians ?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Sunil
Bhattacharjya
Sent: 04 August 2009 11:39
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yajna and Homa
Dear Michaelji,
Yes, Max muller was a great man and according to Swami Vivekananda he was an incarnation of Sayana. In the Indian tradition we do not dig the past of a saint and we do not worry about the source of a river. Yet it is difficult to forget that he was the architect of the fake Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT). Initially he was under the German romanticism due to coming under the influence of the works of the German scholars of the 18th and 19th centuries, who held a concept that the Germans were the Aryans. At that time he also tried to persuade some people to follow the Aryan christ though he was himself at loggerhead with the orthodox Christian clergy. Further coming under the influence of Jonesian chronology he imagined that his own Aryan ancestors came to India in the 15th century BCE and authored the Rig Veda around 12th to 14th century BCE. Later on he realised his mistake and retracted his opinion but the damage was already done and the
opportunistic colonial historians did not accept his retraction and the AIT became more and more entrenched in the academic circle. Because of that the Indian children are not being able to read the true ancient history of India even now.
Regards,
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
--- On Tue, 8/4/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yajna and Homa
To: "advaita vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 2:35 AM
Yadu ji
The wonderful concept of pancamahayajna takes care of all cases and all imperfections, doesn't it ?
Asking for a specific gift from the gods would thus be permissible, but asking something 'for me alone' -- not !
By the way, what have you guys got against Max Muller, who introduced the RgVeda to the West, gave his life to scholarship, and was recognised by a great Hindu sage as the reincarnation of another ancient sage ?
Just one of his services was to introduce young men who were to join the Indian Civil Service, to the greatness of Hinduism and the Veda before they left for India..
A pity he wasn't asked to perform the same service for intending missionaries -- they might have given up before they set foot on the boat !
Regards to all,
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Yadu Moharir [mailto:ymoharir at yahoo.com]
Sent: 04 August 2009 03:44
To: Advaita List Michael Sheppard
Subject: Fw: Re: [Advaita-l] Yajna and Homa
Hi MIchael:
I do not not know if you saw this but would like to know your thoughts.
Regards,
Dr. Yadu
--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoharir at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Dr. Yadu Moharir <ymoharir at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yajna and Homa
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Cc: michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:26 AM
Namste Michael:
PaNinii arly makes a difference between the term "yaj~na and kartu" in his aShtaadhyaayii.
4.3.68 kratuyaj~nebhyashcha
In kaashiikaavR^itti the term kartu signifies somayaj~na.
Term yaj~naa is difined by mimaa.nsaakaara's as -
devatoddeshena dravyatyaagaH
Meaning - giving money for the purpose of Gods.
Here the the purpose needs to be understood correctly in the term of "advaitic perspective" as an extension of "aha.mbrahmaasmi". Gods are separate from us and we are essentially Gods when it comes to "Society".
As per nirukta
yaj~naH kasmaat | prakhyaata.m yajatirkarma iti nairuktaaH |
yaacno bhavati iti vaa | bahu kR^iShNaajina iti aupamanyavaH | yajuu.mShi ena nayanti iti.vaa
Meaning - As per nirukta - completion of a procedure that is known to everyone is "yaj~na". desire of receiving is expressed in it, therefore it is yaj~na. aupananya says that there are many "kR^iShNajiina" (deer skins - used for sitting) thus it is called "yaj~na". Primarily "yajusa" mantraa's are used in this process.
IMO - It is unfortunate that pandits look at the there terms with limited perspective of ritual rather than the intended purpose as elegantly expressed in R^igveda.
sutraamaaNam pR^ithiviiM dyaam anehasaM susharmaaNam aditiM supraNiitim|
daiviiM naavaM svaritraam anaagasam asravantiim aa ruhemaa svastaye || 10-63-10 ||
Meaning – May we ride the boat that which is huge, defect-less (without hole), protects, enjoyable and full of happiness, does nor display poverty, has no odd attributes, and which is exalted and (proceeding in) right direction of progress (uatkatSha)and obtaining or attaining Godhead.
Is is not a perfect description of attempting to build a Titanic that would not sink and take the passengers to prosperity ?
As per Westerners confusing the issue is not really relevant. Some of then purposely misinterpreted our ancient texts but bigger blame has to be shouldered by the Indian scholars who for selfish supported and propagated their integrations. Unfortunately this continues today from Max Muller to Michael Witzel.
Hope this helps,
Regarfs,
Dr. Yadu
--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yajna and Homa
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:49 AM
Dear Sunil and Jaldhar and others,
To my (confused) mind, the 'imp in the inkpot' which has clouded much of
'the history of religion' is that damnable 'Evolution' -- with its attendant
imps Progress and General Happiness -- and how it might or might not be
applied to Hinduism and other faiths : the idea, for instance, that the age
of the Veda was to be compared with our own times, and seen as 'primitive'
in some respects; leading to the attractive idea that 'yajna' as sacrifice
was a public, external rite in the Veda, which led to the 'age of the
Upanishads' to 'yajna' as a private, internalised sacrifice to self or
surrender to self; and 'hotra' to 'homa'. And to that sense which some
scholars say is not present in the RgVeda, that rebirth is a factor in
yajna..
How much we in the West have contributed to this confusion, I couldn't say.
I try to resist it myself. Maybe it's because we don't read the Vedic hymns
in the right way.
I wonder if this rings a bell with scholars here ?
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Sunil
Bhattacharjya
Sent: 03 August 2009 10:14
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yajna and Homa
Dear Jaldharji,
Kindly permit me to quote my own statement:
Quote
In the fourth Veda ie. the Atharva Veda where Lord Brahma himself is the
priest.
Unquote
How will you then rewrite the above? Is it done on behalf of Lord Brahmaa,
the Saguna Brahman?
Regards,
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com> wrote:
From: Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Yajna and Homa
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:15 AM
On Sun, 2 Aug 2009 Michael Shepherd wrote:
> Namaste. While yajna is defined as 'worship, sacrifice', extended to the
> five great obligatory sacrifices of the dvija, the prime definition of
homa
> is 'pouring into the fire'. The older, more formal ceremony of offering
> oblations as in the RgVeda was the 'hotra' with its designated classes of
> priest.
>
Actually it is the other way round. It is the Yajna with Vashatkara which
makes up the shrauta sacrifices which require atleast 4 Brahmanas.
The homas with svahakar are typically less elaborate and are either
auxilliaries of the shrauta rites or make up the grhya or "household" rites
which require either one Brahmana or are done by the sacrificer himself.
(And to add to the confusion these include the panchamahayajnas you
mentioned.)
On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Sunil Bhattacharjya wrote:
> Yes in the Vedatrayee there is yajna and the priests are differently
called in each of the three vedas. In the fourth Veda ie. the Atharva Veda
where Lord Brhma himself is the priest.
Brahma or brAhmaNa in this context has nothing to do with brahma prajApati.
Perhaps it should be translated as "wielder" or "director" of sacred speech.
-- Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>
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