[Advaita-l] Atman -- soul or witness or both ?

[Michael Shepherd]

Savithri

That reminds me of the smrti :

I am the vault and the vaulter;
I am the ground and the spring;
I am the bar and the transcendence..

Michael :)

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of
savithri devaraj
Sent: 29 August 2009 15:02
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Atman -- soul or witness or both ?



Absolutely, sruti tells us that brahman and atma are one and the same, and
that we don't have to look elsewhere. Sruti is called antya pramaNa
because it clearly tells us what atma is not (not this, not this..., you are
that, etc.) and negates that last vestige of doership, our intellect, that
was used as a pole (pole-vaulting). This knowledge that we are always
atman/brahman here and now and forever (purusha) should give us the
conviction to act(vastu tantra) in the right spirit until we have eliminated
the dusty sheaths that have prevented us from realizing this so far. This is
how I would reconcile vastu/purusha tantra aspects into sadhana.
Regards,
Savithri

--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:


From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Atman -- soul or witness or both ?
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 6:30 AM


Namaste Savithri

I'm sure you're right, and good luck !

Though I do think that the mahavakya encourage us to work through 'this-here
atman' ! Doesn't that resolve the purusa/vastu ?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of
savithri devaraj
Sent: 26 August 2009 21:52
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Atman -- soul or witness or both ?




Namaste Michael -
 
How indeed do we live the truth of "atman is brahman" - this is the billion
dollar question.
 
"Atma as the eternal witness" is not something we can practice, or something
we can repeat to gain the experience of this statement - it is at best an
inference from examining the three states and analyzing our experiences
based on sruti. In each experience we believe we are the witnessing
consciousness, I think we are deluding ourselves because consciousness is
objectified is all these experiences and it is no more the eternal witness
then. We really can't wilfully be the eternal witness.
In other words, it is not exactly a purusha-tantra sadhana to realize the
pure consciousness. Many Sruti vaakyas have specified that realization
is vastu-tantra, not purusha-tantra.
 
When this exact question was raised, the answer from swamis living in
austerities has been the same - perform nishkaama karma, clean the mind off
of its dull and dross and leave the rest.
 
In my opinion, the only practical thing to do would be to perform our nitya
and naimittika karmas without attachment, and operate in the transactional
world from a place of fullness fully believing we are the infinite and lack
nothing, until this becomes our nature effortlessly.
 
my 2 cents,
Savithri

--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:


From: Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: [Advaita-l] Atman -- soul or witness or both ?
To: "advaita vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 8:33 AM


The mahavakya all remind us of the shared identity of atman and Brahman.

But how do we personally enter the truth of this ?

Some teachers and gurus emphasise the practicality of atman as eternal
witness, whom we can invite to witness every thought, every word, every
action; as a means to unite with Brahman in the simplest possible manner.

But I note that 'atman as witness' doesn't seem to figure much in classical
texts. Or am I wrong ? Is this more implied than stated outright ?

I'd appreciate comment.

Michael




_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org




_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org





_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org




_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita

To unsubscribe or change your options:
http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l

For assistance, contact:
listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org