[Advaita-l] Disccussion on Free-will

[Shyam]

For a perspective on free will and determinism..

http://poornamadam.blogspot.com/2008/04/free-will-determinism-prarabdha.html

Shri Gurubhyoh namah
Hari OM
Shyam


--- On Wed, 5/20/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Disccussion on Free-will
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 8:36 PM
> Namaste,
>  
> I think a slight rewording will help. Everything is
> predestined not necessarily at birth. Yes the place and the
> country of  birth and the parents  could be said to be
> predestind by one's Karma of past life, assuming that the
> parents were compelled to stay in a particular place at the
> time of one's birth. However  the choice of partner in
> marriage is not necessarily absolutely decided by the Karma
> of one's Past life. It could be decided by the combined
> effect of the Karma of the Past life and the Karma of this
> life prior to the event of marriage. In that sense
> everything is decided by past Karma. So one can have the
> free wiil to exercise prior to one's marriage though there
> can be pressure on one to marry a particular person due to
> one's Karma of the past life. In the 18th chapter of the
> Bhagavad Gita we see that Lord Krishna gave the freedom to
> Arjuna to decide his action though it was certain that the
> Kauravas would not live for ever even if
>  Arjuna did not fight. The Lord was telling Arjuna that
> according to the Dharma Arjuna should fight and it was upto
> Arjuna to decide the course of his own action.
>  
> Sincerely,
>  
> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/20/09, Mahesh Ursekar <mahesh.ursekar at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Mahesh Ursekar <mahesh.ursekar at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Disccussion on Free-will
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 7:31 AM
> 
> 
> Pranams!
> 
> I would like to draw your attention to the following
> article attributed to
> Sri Ramana Maharshi.
> 
> http://www.hinduism.co.za/karma&.htm
> 
> In particular, see the following snippet:
> 
> *Question*: I can understand that the outstanding events in
> a man’s life,
> such as his country, nationality, family, career or
> profession, marriage,
> death, etc., are all predestined by his Karma, but can it
> be that all the
> details of his life, down to the minutest, have already
> been determined?
> Now, for instance, I put this fan that is in my hand down
> on the floor here.
> Can it be that it was already decided that on such and such
> a day, at such
> and such an hour, I should move the fan like this and put
> it down here?
> 
> *Sri Ramana Maharshi*: Certainly. Whatever this body is to
> do and whatever
> experiences it is to pass through was already decided when
> it came into
> existence.
> 
> As per my reading, it advocates determinism making free
> will an illusion.
> 
> Thanks, Mahesh
> 
> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:37 PM, kuntimaddi sadananda <
> kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > PraNAms to all
> >
> > Interestingly this topic keeps coming back again and
> again and appearing in
> > the both the lists at this time.
> >
> > I am not going to discuss this issue - other than
> restate a statement I
> > have made before: Free will is there until I am free
> from will.
> >
> > Here is a beautiful sloka from Bhagavaan Ramana in Sat
> DarShaNam in the
> > text we are taking in the coming Memorial Day weekend
> camp, related to this
> > topic, and it may be of interest to some. He says, as
> always in his
> > characteristic style of brevity:
> >
> > vidheH prayatnasya ca ko2pivaadaH
> > tayor dvayor muulamajaanataam syaat|
> > vidheH prayatnasya ca muulavastu
> > sanjaanataam naiva vidhirna yatnaH|| - sloka 21
> >
> > Vidhi stands for fate and prayatna stands for
> freewill. He says the debate
> > of fate and freewill is a universal and unending
> debate. Some say it is fate
> > and some say it is freewill that controls. Efforts
> determine our fate and
> > fate determines your freewill. What I have is fate and
> what I do with what I
> > have is free will. I have at anytime these two things
> simultaneously since I
> > have no choice but to choose - kartum shakyam akarturm
> shakyam, anyathaa
> > kartum shakyam - to do, not to do or to do another way
> - these choice-less
> > choices is there because of the present situation to
> deal with due my fate.
> > At any time I am faced with these two. Now which comes
> first - is it fate or
> > free will. That question is invalid because the
> ignorance is anaadi -
> > beginning less. The birth, sustenance and death are
> cyclic and no beginning
> > and no end until I get out of this punarapi jananam
> punarapi maranam cycle.
> > How do I get out of it?
> >
> > Bhagavaan Ramana says -this discussion is there only
> because one does not
> > understand - tayor dvayoH muulam - here moolam is the
> adhiShTaanam or the
> > substantive of both the freewill and the fate - both
> arise with the notion
> > of ahankaara - the notion that I am an individual
> separate from the jagat
> > the universe and hence separate from Iswara, the
> creator of this universe.
> >
> > Hence Bhagavaan recommends not to indulge in this
> useless discussion of is
> > it freewill or fate which is final, what is final is
> the substantive of both
> > - the very existence-consciousness that I am - where
> both jiiva, jagat and
> > Iswara resolve into one and where both freewill and
> fate get transcended.
> >
> > Hence he says, vidheH prayatnasya ca muulavastu
> samjaanataam - for those
> > who know the substantive of both the fate and free
> will - the very
> > existence-consciousness because of which both seems to
> exist and because of
> > which one is aware of both, that muula vastu or that
> absolute reality - one
> > who knows that for him naiva vidhiH na yatnaH - there
> is no freewill or
> > fate.
> >
> > A beautiful teaching indeed. My prostrations to that
> sage of Arunaachala.
> >
> >
> > Hari Om!
> > Sadananda
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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