[Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7

[Anbu sivam2]

Sunilji,

I would gladly yield to Sadanandaji and jaldarji to answer you.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 4:01 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Anbuji,
>
> Upanishad has mentioned the five Koshas so any discussion involving the
> Koshas may be acceptable to you. On death one leaves the Annamaya kosha and
> the Pranamaya kosha. Next one leaves the third Kosha (the Manomaya kosha)
> before taking another birth. Do you think the Buddhi also leaves with the
> Manomaya kosha? If you have no answer may be Sadanandaji or Jaldharji or
> other scholars may enlighten us on this.
>
> Regards,
>
> Suni
>
> --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 6:27 PM
>
> Unfortunately Sunilji I have no interest in fathoming any dream.  I know it
> to be as unreal as the waking state.  As far the intellect it exists only
> when you are awake.  That is why you pray to Savithri, the deity of the
> Sun,
> to incite it so it can discriminate it between the real and the unreal.  In
> dream state as also in deep sleep state there is no Sun or its deity.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
> sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Anbuji,
> >
> > While hailing your excellent note, which includes the following para,
> may
> > I make a suggestion?
> >
> > /////   The intellect is absent during dream time but the 'small mind'
> that
> > presents
> > the world of objects to the "i" is present.  Because of the absence of
> the
> > intellect during dream time the world of objects are convoluted and this
> > confounds the "i".  This confusion is recorded by the chittha.  Thus in
> the
> > dream state only the three parts of the 'big mind' viz. the 'small mind',
> > the "i" and the Chittha are present.  ////
> >
> > Should we say that the Intellect rests or is mostly inactive during the
> > dream state but it does participate at times? Probably that is why it is
> > said that the early-morning dreams are useful as it shows the things to
> > come? Probably at a certain vibration rate of the brain, and it could be
> the
> > alpha state (friends will correct me if I am wrong) it does participate.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 12:57 AM
> >
> > (continued from the previous posting)
> >
> > Now let us try to understand the 'mind' in two ways viz.
> >
> > (i) the 'big mind' which comprises of (a) the 'small mind', (b) the
> > intellect, (c) "i" the ahamkara and (d) the chittha the memory and
> >
> > (ii) the 'small mind' that presents the world of objects to the "i" the
> > ahamkara.  The world of objects is indeed body galore!
> >
> > The intellect is present only during the waking state and its function is
> > to
> > straighten out the world of objects presented by the 'small mind' in time
> > and space in a neatly fashioned way.  This is its role of determination.
> > The
> > "i" is the one to which the world of objects is presented to and this "i"
> > 'experiences' the world of objects.  The chittha records these
> experiences
> > of the "i" constantly.  Thus in waking state all the four parts of the
> 'big
> > mind' are present.
> >
> > The intellect is absent during dream time but the 'small mind' that
> > presents
> > the world of objects to the "i" is present.  Because of the absence of
> the
> > intellect during dream time the world of objects are convoluted and this
> > confounds the "i".  This confusion is recorded by the chittha.  Thus in
> the
> > dream state only the three parts of the 'big mind' viz. the 'small mind',
> > the "i" and the Chittha are present.
> >
> > In deep sleep state both the intellect and the 'small mind' are absent.
> > That leaves only the two entitites viz. the "i" and the chittha to be
> > present.
> >
> > *The "i" knows itself by identifying itself with a body presented to it
> by
> > the 'small mind'.  This is its self-awareness.* In deep sleep the mind is
> > absent and so there is no body presented to be identified with.    Thus,
> > even though "i" is present during deep sleep its self-awareness is not
> > there.  "Both the world and "i" are not there" is its experience! Such
> > experience is recorded by the chittha.
> >
> > *But this chittha also records the 'Ananda' experienced by the
> "i"!*   This
> > 'Ananda' was not apprehended by the "i" because of lack of
> self-awareness.
> > The Vedas bring it the attention of "i" of the existence of this
> 'Ananda'.
> >
> > In summation, the "i" is a saakshi for it is present in all the three
> > states.  Because of its self-awareness is linked to a body that it
> > identifies itself as "i" it considers itself as kartha and bhoktha in
> > waking
> > and dream states and non-existent during deep sleep.  However being part
> of
> > the 'big mind'it is part of the world of karma and thus it is inert.
> Karma
> > kim param?  Karma thajjadam exclaims Bhagavan Ramana.  Jadam indeed has
> no
> > self-awareness.
> >
> > Yet the awareness was ever present despite the jadam nature of the "i".
> > That indeed was revealed by the experience of 'Ananda'.  This is first
> > postulated as the True Saakshi (as in the Geetha verse quoted), however
> > when
> > the false 'big mind' is rejected by the self-inquiry the survivor is
> known
> > as the "I" the True Saakshi that has nothing to witness! Yes, the True
> > Saakshi is beyond anubhava!  It is pure Ananda.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Quote: "The one who was awake even in the deep-sleep state cannot be
> > > called as pramaata, since the status of pramaata comes with tripuTi
> with
> > > prameyam and pramANa present. In the deep-sleep state, I am pure
> > saakshii,
> > > the witnessing consciousness, witnessing ‘nothing or no-thing’.  In
> fact
> > > Vedanta says I, as witnessing consciousness, am present all the time,
> in
> > the
> > > waking, dream and deep-sleep states. ‘tvam’ in the ‘tat tvam asi’
> refers
> > to
> > > that pure witnessing consciousness.  All the states of experience come
> > and
> > > go; I am ever present and ever awake as saakshii. Krishna says that
> > saakshii
> > > is the universal consciousness, the ever present, knower of all fields,
> > > KshetrajnaH; Kshetrajnam ca api maam viddhi sarva kshetreShu bhaarata;
> > and
> > > that forms the mahaavaakya."
> > >
> > > The "i" who, in deep sleep, experienced nothing (of the world of
> > > multiplicity) did experience the Ananda of the Self for that was the
> only
> > > thing that kept his company and so he recalls this experience when
> awake
> > in
> > > the words "I slept happily".  That was his pure positive
> bhogam.   While
> > > dreaming and while awake he experiences the bhogam in the form of
> misram,
> > > that is both positively and negatively.  While awake he claims that he
> is
> > a
> > > karmi for the mere fault of being pressured into doing karma which is
> > always
> > > painful while in other two states he is merely a bhogi.  This
> > 'experiencing'
> > > is suggested as being a witness.  This is vaachyaartham.  In
> > vaachyaartham
> > > 'i'-who claims to be kartha and bhoktha- is part of the mind which in
> the
> > > ultimate analysis is found to be false.  Therefore the 'i' of the
> > > vaachyaartham is false.
> > >
> > > The Kshethragnya is the Self that keeps his company in all three states
> > and
> > > the suggestion is that He is the true Witness.
> > >
> > > The jeeva in ordinary course would not know of the Kshethragnya and
> that
> > > would make him conclude that he is merely a kartha and a bhoktha
> > > alternatively, who is born and dead either for one time or to repeat in
> > > endless cycles.  It is to the credit of Prasthaanathrayam that brings
> to
> > his
> > > attention of the existence of the Kshethragnya that sends him into the
> > fresh
> > > enquiry on the relation between him and the Kshethragnya.
> > >
> > > Addvaitins contend that the Jeeva is the Kshethragnya in lakshyaartham
> > and
> > > if indeed he achieves his lakshya by the Grace of his Guru he is sure
> to
> > > find that there was never a kshethra in the first place!
> > >
> > > The suggestion is: Know the true Witness (the 'one who was awake even
> in
> > > deep-sleep' as Sadanandaji put it) and that true Witness is none other
> > than
> > > you!
> > >
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