[Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7

[Anbu sivam2]

Sunilji,

They have their own way of finding Vedic support to their views.  Advaitins
too rely on the prasthaanathrayam and advocate dispassionate self-inquiry.

I had found a very old talk by ParamaachaaryaaL (he gave it in 1932!) that
my father had jotted down and stashed away among the gems of his collections
and when I complete my translation I will post here so you know how the
advocates of these three philosophies interacted thorugh centuries.

On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 5:48 AM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Anbuji,
>
> I am asking too many questions. I hope you will not mind. I perfectly agree
> with you statement regarding the Dvaita and Advaita, when you said as
> follows:
>
> ////  Dwaithis hold that the Jeeva and Easwara will remain separate for
> ever.  In Visishtaadvaitha, these two though separate, can blend in
> harmoniously. Though there are thaaraathmya or heirarchy among Gods the
> jeeva can seek to get promoted to those ranks by dint of sat karma. ////
>
> Does this not show that the Dvaitins and Visishtadvaitins have a trace of
> ego in not giving up the separateness from the Brahman? It may mean that
> they do not intend to leave the last Kosha (the Anandamaya kosha). Any
> comment?
>
> Regards,
>
> Sunil
>
> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 2:00 AM
>
> "Now let us discuss some problems or pratibandhakas that inhibit the
> correct
> understanding of the mahaavaakya. Mind always has a tendency to project or
> objectify any knowledge, since it works in the field of tripuTi alone. tat
> vijijnaasaswa – one has to inquire into the nature of reality, says the
> Upanishad. The inquiry can only be done with the mind.  That is, I, with
> the
> mind is the enquirer, since mind by itself cannot do any inquiry without
> the
> support of a conscious entity. Hence, I say I am conscious of the inquiry
> too. That is what pramaata means involving the tripuTi-s. Hence even in the
> self-inquiry, the mind habitually has a tendency to project or objectify
> what that ‘I am’ is, while the scripture is trying to guide the inquiry by
> saying that you are not this – na iti– na iti – not this – not this.  Mind
> is used to objectify and the scripture says it is the subject that is
> involved in all objectifications.  In the very habitual objectification, I
> miss the subject, the conscious entity, or to state exactly I do not pay
> attention to the subject. This is the major problem for many spiritual
> seekers."
>
> Yes indeed the inquiry can only be done with the mind, specifically by its
> intellect!
>
> The idea that 'I am this body that is different from other bodies'
> constitutes the awareness of "i" as opposed to the non-i where both "i" and
> non-i are known as bodies.  In this idea the "i" is the witness of both.
> There is definitely a discord between the "i" and the non-i.  This is
> jeevathwam (pasu).  In the idea 'I am all the bodies' the awareness does
> exist of all bodies but they are all identified with "i".  Here too the "i"
> is the witness of both of bodies and the sense of "i" that is not specific
> to any one single body.  However the discord is absent.  This is
> Easwarathwam (pathi). It is likened to the many parts of human body
> functioning in concord.
>
> Dwaithis hold that the Jeeva and Easwara will remain separate for ever.  In
> Visishtaadvaitha, these two though separate, can blend in harmoniously.
> Though there are thaaraathmya or heirarchy among Gods the jeeva can seek to
> get promoted to those ranks by dint of sat karma.
>
> The idea of witness has to be gleaned from the above.
>
> *However, for advaitins a witness, whatever is his nature, is part of the
> guNa-karma or the 'big mind' that I talked about before.  Such witness is
> entangled.  The Self-realization takes place only when this karma is
> totally
> denied of its existence through self-inquiry.** In this inquiry a person
> travels from 'karmaNye vaa adhikaarasthE..' to 'na karmaNa na prajaya na
> dhanaa thyaagEnaikE amrithathvamaanasuhu'.
> *
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 3:57 AM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > (continued from the previous posting)
> >
> > Now let us try to understand the 'mind' in two ways viz.
> >
> > (i) the 'big mind' which comprises of (a) the 'small mind', (b) the
> > intellect, (c) "i" the ahamkara and (d) the chittha the memory and
> >
> > (ii) the 'small mind' that presents the world of objects to the "i" the
> > ahamkara.  The world of objects is indeed body galore!
> >
> > The intellect is present only during the waking state and its function is
> > to straighten out the world of objects presented by the 'small mind' in
> time
> > and space in a neatly fashioned way.  This is its role of determination.
> The
> > "i" is the one to which the world of objects is presented to and this "i"
> > 'experiences' the world of objects.  The chittha records these
> experiences
> > of the "i" constantly.  Thus in waking state all the four parts of the
> 'big
> > mind' are present.
> >
> > The intellect is absent during dream time but the 'small mind' that
> > presents the world of objects to the "i" is present.  Because of the
> absence
> > of the intellect during dream time the world of objects are convoluted
> and
> > this confounds the "i".  This confusion is recorded by the chittha.  Thus
> in
> > the dream state only the three parts of the 'big mind' viz. the 'small
> > mind', the "i" and the Chittha are present.
> >
> > In deep sleep state both the intellect and the 'small mind' are absent.
> > That leaves only the two entitites viz. the "i" and the chittha to be
> > present.
> >
> > *The "i" knows itself by identifying itself with a body presented to it
> by
> > the 'small mind'.  This is its self-awareness.* In deep sleep the mind is
> > absent and so there is no body presented to be identified with.    Thus,
> > even though "i" is present during deep sleep its self-awareness is not
> > there.  "Both the world and "i" are not there" is its experience! Such
> > experience is recorded by the chittha.
> >
> > *But this chittha also records the 'Ananda' experienced by the "i"!*
> > This 'Ananda' was not apprehended by the "i" because of lack of
> > self-awareness.  The Vedas bring it the attention of "i" of the existence
> of
> > this 'Ananda'.
> >
> > In summation, the "i" is a saakshi for it is present in all the three
> > states.  Because of its self-awareness is linked to a body that it
> > identifies itself as "i" it considers itself as kartha and bhoktha in
> waking
> > and dream states and non-existent during deep sleep.  However being part
> of
> > the 'big mind'it is part of the world of karma and thus it is inert.
> Karma
> > kim param?  Karma thajjadam exclaims Bhagavan Ramana.  Jadam indeed has
> no
> > self-awareness.
> >
> > Yet the awareness was ever present despite the jadam nature of the "i".
> > That indeed was revealed by the experience of 'Ananda'.  This is first
> > postulated as the True Saakshi (as in the Geetha verse quoted), however
> when
> > the false 'big mind' is rejected by the self-inquiry the survivor is
> known
> > as the "I" the True Saakshi that has nothing to witness! Yes, the True
> > Saakshi is beyond anubhava!  It is pure Ananda.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Quote: "The one who was awake even in the deep-sleep state cannot be
> >> called as pramaata, since the status of pramaata comes with tripuTi with
> >> prameyam and pramANa present. In the deep-sleep state, I am pure
> saakshii,
> >> the witnessing consciousness, witnessing ‘nothing or no-thing’.  In fact
> >> Vedanta says I, as witnessing consciousness, am present all the time, in
> the
> >> waking, dream and deep-sleep states. ‘tvam’ in the ‘tat tvam asi’ refers
> to
> >> that pure witnessing consciousness.  All the states of experience come
> and
> >> go; I am ever present and ever awake as saakshii. Krishna says that
> saakshii
> >> is the universal consciousness, the ever present, knower of all fields,
> >> KshetrajnaH; Kshetrajnam ca api maam viddhi sarva kshetreShu bhaarata;
> and
> >> that forms the mahaavaakya."
> >>
> >> The "i" who, in deep sleep, experienced nothing (of the world of
> >> multiplicity) did experience the Ananda of the Self for that was the
> only
> >> thing that kept his company and so he recalls this experience when awake
> in
> >> the words "I slept happily".  That was his pure positive bhogam.   While
> >> dreaming and while awake he experiences the bhogam in the form of
> misram,
> >> that is both positively and negatively.  While awake he claims that he
> is a
> >> karmi for the mere fault of being pressured into doing karma which is
> always
> >> painful while in other two states he is merely a bhogi.  This
> 'experiencing'
> >> is suggested as being a witness.  This is vaachyaartham.  In
> vaachyaartham
> >> 'i'-who claims to be kartha and bhoktha- is part of the mind which in
> the
> >> ultimate analysis is found to be false.  Therefore the 'i' of the
> >> vaachyaartham is false.
> >>
> >> The Kshethragnya is the Self that keeps his company in all three states
> >> and the suggestion is that He is the true Witness.
> >>
> >> The jeeva in ordinary course would not know of the Kshethragnya and that
> >> would make him conclude that he is merely a kartha and a bhoktha
> >> alternatively, who is born and dead either for one time or to repeat in
> >> endless cycles.  It is to the credit of Prasthaanathrayam that brings to
> his
> >> attention of the existence of the Kshethragnya that sends him into the
> fresh
> >> enquiry on the relation between him and the Kshethragnya.
> >>
> >> Addvaitins contend that the Jeeva is the Kshethragnya in lakshyaartham
> and
> >> if indeed he achieves his lakshya by the Grace of his Guru he is sure to
> >> find that there was never a kshethra in the first place!
> >>
> >> The suggestion is: Know the true Witness (the 'one who was awake even in
> >> deep-sleep' as Sadanandaji put it) and that true Witness is none other
> than
> >> you!
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>