[Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7

[Michael Shepherd]

I recall that there is a well-known mantra for beseeching the Lord for an
answer to a question to be given in a dream ?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
[mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
sivam2
Sent: 24 November 2009 02:28
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7



Unfortunately Sunilji I have no interest in fathoming any dream.  I know it
to be as unreal as the waking state.  As far the intellect it exists only
when you are awake.  That is why you pray to Savithri, the deity of the Sun,
to incite it so it can discriminate it between the real and the unreal.  In
dream state as also in deep sleep state there is no Sun or its deity.

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Anbuji,
>
> While hailing your excellent note, which includes the following para,  may
> I make a suggestion?
>
> /////   The intellect is absent during dream time but the 'small mind'
that
> presents
> the world of objects to the "i" is present.  Because of the absence of the
> intellect during dream time the world of objects are convoluted and this
> confounds the "i".  This confusion is recorded by the chittha.  Thus in
the
> dream state only the three parts of the 'big mind' viz. the 'small mind',
> the "i" and the Chittha are present.  ////
>
> Should we say that the Intellect rests or is mostly inactive during the
> dream state but it does participate at times? Probably that is why it is
> said that the early-morning dreams are useful as it shows the things to
> come? Probably at a certain vibration rate of the brain, and it could be
the
> alpha state (friends will correct me if I am wrong) it does participate.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
>
>
> --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 12:57 AM
>
> (continued from the previous posting)
>
> Now let us try to understand the 'mind' in two ways viz.
>
> (i) the 'big mind' which comprises of (a) the 'small mind', (b) the
> intellect, (c) "i" the ahamkara and (d) the chittha the memory and
>
> (ii) the 'small mind' that presents the world of objects to the "i" the
> ahamkara.  The world of objects is indeed body galore!
>
> The intellect is present only during the waking state and its function is
> to
> straighten out the world of objects presented by the 'small mind' in time
> and space in a neatly fashioned way.  This is its role of determination.
> The
> "i" is the one to which the world of objects is presented to and this "i"
> 'experiences' the world of objects.  The chittha records these experiences
> of the "i" constantly.  Thus in waking state all the four parts of the
'big
> mind' are present.
>
> The intellect is absent during dream time but the 'small mind' that
> presents
> the world of objects to the "i" is present.  Because of the absence of the
> intellect during dream time the world of objects are convoluted and this
> confounds the "i".  This confusion is recorded by the chittha.  Thus in
the
> dream state only the three parts of the 'big mind' viz. the 'small mind',
> the "i" and the Chittha are present.
>
> In deep sleep state both the intellect and the 'small mind' are absent.
> That leaves only the two entitites viz. the "i" and the chittha to be
> present.
>
> *The "i" knows itself by identifying itself with a body presented to it by
> the 'small mind'.  This is its self-awareness.* In deep sleep the mind is
> absent and so there is no body presented to be identified with.    Thus,
> even though "i" is present during deep sleep its self-awareness is not
> there.  "Both the world and "i" are not there" is its experience! Such
> experience is recorded by the chittha.
>
> *But this chittha also records the 'Ananda' experienced by the "i"!*
This
> 'Ananda' was not apprehended by the "i" because of lack of self-awareness.
> The Vedas bring it the attention of "i" of the existence of this 'Ananda'.
>
> In summation, the "i" is a saakshi for it is present in all the three
> states.  Because of its self-awareness is linked to a body that it
> identifies itself as "i" it considers itself as kartha and bhoktha in
> waking
> and dream states and non-existent during deep sleep.  However being part
of
> the 'big mind'it is part of the world of karma and thus it is inert.
Karma
> kim param?  Karma thajjadam exclaims Bhagavan Ramana.  Jadam indeed has no
> self-awareness.
>
> Yet the awareness was ever present despite the jadam nature of the "i".
> That indeed was revealed by the experience of 'Ananda'.  This is first
> postulated as the True Saakshi (as in the Geetha verse quoted), however
> when
> the false 'big mind' is rejected by the self-inquiry the survivor is known
> as the "I" the True Saakshi that has nothing to witness! Yes, the True
> Saakshi is beyond anubhava!  It is pure Ananda.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Quote: "The one who was awake even in the deep-sleep state cannot be
> > called as pramaata, since the status of pramaata comes with tripuTi with
> > prameyam and pramANa present. In the deep-sleep state, I am pure
> saakshii,
> > the witnessing consciousness, witnessing ‘nothing or no-thing’.  In fact
> > Vedanta says I, as witnessing consciousness, am present all the time, in
> the
> > waking, dream and deep-sleep states. ‘tvam’ in the ‘tat tvam asi’ refers
> to
> > that pure witnessing consciousness.  All the states of experience come
> and
> > go; I am ever present and ever awake as saakshii. Krishna says that
> saakshii
> > is the universal consciousness, the ever present, knower of all fields,
> > KshetrajnaH; Kshetrajnam ca api maam viddhi sarva kshetreShu bhaarata;
> and
> > that forms the mahaavaakya."
> >
> > The "i" who, in deep sleep, experienced nothing (of the world of
> > multiplicity) did experience the Ananda of the Self for that was the
only
> > thing that kept his company and so he recalls this experience when awake
> in
> > the words "I slept happily".  That was his pure positive bhogam.   While
> > dreaming and while awake he experiences the bhogam in the form of
misram,
> > that is both positively and negatively.  While awake he claims that he
is
> a
> > karmi for the mere fault of being pressured into doing karma which is
> always
> > painful while in other two states he is merely a bhogi.  This
> 'experiencing'
> > is suggested as being a witness.  This is vaachyaartham.  In
> vaachyaartham
> > 'i'-who claims to be kartha and bhoktha- is part of the mind which in
the
> > ultimate analysis is found to be false.  Therefore the 'i' of the
> > vaachyaartham is false.
> >
> > The Kshethragnya is the Self that keeps his company in all three states
> and
> > the suggestion is that He is the true Witness.
> >
> > The jeeva in ordinary course would not know of the Kshethragnya and that
> > would make him conclude that he is merely a kartha and a bhoktha
> > alternatively, who is born and dead either for one time or to repeat in
> > endless cycles.  It is to the credit of Prasthaanathrayam that brings to
> his
> > attention of the existence of the Kshethragnya that sends him into the
> fresh
> > enquiry on the relation between him and the Kshethragnya.
> >
> > Addvaitins contend that the Jeeva is the Kshethragnya in lakshyaartham
> and
> > if indeed he achieves his lakshya by the Grace of his Guru he is sure to
> > find that there was never a kshethra in the first place!
> >
> > The suggestion is: Know the true Witness (the 'one who was awake even in
> > deep-sleep' as Sadanandaji put it) and that true Witness is none other
> than
> > you!
> >
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