[Advaita-l] Fw: Re: A Perspective - 7

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

--- On Wed, 11/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 2:25 AM

Sadanandaji - Pranaams

You said  ////   In dream state, not that intellect is not there - it is at lower grade
than emotional mind - even in dream I do differentiate x vs y in my
transactions. That discriminative faculty is intellect only.  ////  

Thank you for your opinion and I agree with what you said.

In fact the sareeras can be divided into three types and these are the Sthula sareera, Sukshma sareera and the Karana sareera. The latter two  are also expressed together as Sukshma sareera. I understand that the Karana sareera goes to the next birth.

Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya

Sunil

--- On Tue, 11/24/09, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
To: "Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 8:08 PM

Sunilji - PraNAms

Manas and buddhi are part of
 subtle elements. They are not separate - one is the discriminative faculty and other is the emotional faculty. Anupravesha statement of the upanishad is accounted by Shankara as entering subtle body to bhoutica shariira. The whole sublte body travels from one loka to the other leaving only the gross body. vijnaana kosha is superior to the manomaya kosha - Tai Up. Shankara says - the consciousness shines more in the intellect first - budhyaaveva bhaaseta swaccheshu pratibinbavat - Atma bodha. 

In dream state, not that intellect is not there - it is at lower grade than emotional mind - even in dream I do differentiate x vs y in my transactions. That discriminative faculty is intellect only. 
Even in the waking state, the intellect is not in full potential - that is what veveka emphasized as one of the requirment for realization - That intellect to differentiate the nitya and anitya has to be develped by study and saadhana. 

I am not
 familiar with sankhya and miimamsa texts to give any reference - sorry.

Hope this helps

Hari Om!
Sada


--- On Tue, 11/24/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 5:04 PM
> Sadanandaji pranam,
> 
> Will you like to give any reference from the Sankhya and /
> or Mimansa texts to say that the Buddhi does not accompany
> the transmigrating
 soul to the next birth and that new
> Buddhi has to be created?. Is it not that Buddhi produces
> Ahankara? Is it not that when the  buddhi is gone the
> Ahanakara too has to go?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> 
> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, kuntimaddi sadananda
> <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> From: kuntimaddi sadananda
> <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Cc: sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 3:38
>  AM
> 
> Sunilji - PraNAms
> 
> The subtle body consists of mind, intellect or buddhi,
> panca praaNaas in subtle form, the jnaanedriyas and
> karmendriayas (there are presiding deities for each like
> moon for manas etc) all get packed in the grosser to subtler
> ones in the reverse order - and go through Udaana vaayu via
> Brahma naaDi to the next field of experience, that is
> determined by the next powerful vaasanas that is propelling
> the package to move. Buddhi is part of the subtle body
> only.
> 
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A
>  Perspective - 7
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 4:01 AM
> > Dear Anbuji,
> > 
> > Upanishad has mentioned the five Koshas so any
> discussion
> > involving the Koshas may be acceptable to you. On
> death one
> > leaves the Annamaya kosha and the Pranamaya kosha.
> Next one
> > leaves the third Kosha (the
 Manomaya kosha) before
> taking
> > another birth. Do you think the Buddhi also leaves
> with the
> > Manomaya kosha? If you have no answer may be
> Sadanandaji or
> > Jaldharji or other scholars may enlighten us on this.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Suni
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
> <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 6:27 PM
> > 
> > Unfortunately Sunilji I have no interest in fathoming
> any
> > dream.  I know it
> > to be as unreal as the waking state.  As far the
> intellect
> > it exists only
> > when you are awake.  That is why you pray to
> Savithri, the
> > deity of the Sun,
> > to incite it so it can discriminate it between the
> real and
> > the unreal.  In
> > dream
>  state as also in deep sleep state there is no Sun or
> > its deity.
> > 
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Sunil Bhattacharjya
> <
> > sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Dear Anbuji,
> > >
> > > While hailing your excellent note, which includes
> the
> > following para,  may
> > > I make a suggestion?
> > >
> > > /////   The intellect is absent
> during dream time
> > but the 'small mind' that
> > > presents
> > > the world of objects to the "i" is
> present.  Because
> > of the absence of the
> > > intellect during dream time the world of objects
> are
> > convoluted and this
> > > confounds the "i".  This confusion
> is recorded by the
> > chittha.  Thus in the
> > > dream state
>  only the three parts of the 'big mind'
> > viz. the
 'small mind',
> > > the "i" and the Chittha are
> present.  ////
> > >
> > > Should we say that the Intellect rests or is
> mostly
> > inactive during the
> > > dream state but it does participate at times?
> Probably
> > that is why it is
> > > said that the early-morning dreams are useful as
> it
> > shows the things to
> > > come? Probably at a certain vibration rate of
> the
> > brain, and it could be the
> > > alpha state (friends will correct me if I am
> wrong) it
> > does participate.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Mon, 11/23/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> > > To: "A discussion group for Advaita
> Vedanta" <
> > > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > > Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 12:57 AM
> > >
> > > (continued from the previous posting)
> > >
> > > Now let us try to understand the 'mind'
> in two ways
> > viz.
> > >
> > > (i) the 'big mind' which comprises of (a)
> the 'small
> > mind', (b) the
> > >
 intellect, (c) "i" the ahamkara and (d)
> the chittha
> > the memory and
> > >
> > > (ii) the 'small mind' that presents the
> world of
> > objects to the "i" the
> > > ahamkara.  The world of objects is indeed
>  body
> > galore!
> > >
> > > The intellect is present only during the waking
> state
> > and its function is
> > > to
> > > straighten out the world of objects presented by
> the
> > 'small mind' in time
> > > and space in a neatly fashioned way.  This
> is its
> > role of determination.
> > > The
> > > "i" is the one to which the world of
> objects is
> > presented to and this "i"
> > > 'experiences' the world of objects. 
> The chittha
> > records these experiences
>
 > > of the "i" constantly.  Thus in
> waking state all the
> > four parts of the 'big
> > > mind' are present.
> > >
> > > The intellect is absent during dream time but
> the
> > 'small mind' that
> > > presents
> > > the world of objects to the "i" is
> present.  Because
> > of the absence of the
> > > intellect during dream time the world of
>  objects are
> > convoluted and this
> > > confounds the "i".  This confusion
> is recorded by the
> > chittha.  Thus in the
> > > dream state only the three parts of the 'big
> mind'
> > viz. the 'small mind',
> > > the "i" and the Chittha are present.
> > >
> > > In deep sleep state both the intellect and the
> 'small
> > mind' are absent.
>
 > > That leaves only the two entitites viz. the
> "i" and
> > the chittha to be
> > > present.
> > >
> > > *The "i" knows itself by identifying
> itself with a
> > body presented to it by
> > > the 'small mind'.  This is its
> self-awareness.* In
> > deep sleep the mind is
> > > absent and so there is no body presented to be
> > identified with.    Thus,
> > > even though "i" is present during deep
> sleep its
> > self-awareness is not
> > > there.  "Both the world and
> "i"
>  are not there" is its
> > experience! Such
> > > experience is recorded by the chittha.
> > >
> > > *But this chittha also records the
> 'Ananda'
> > experienced by the
> "i"!*   This
> > >
 'Ananda' was not apprehended by the
> "i" because of
> > lack of self-awareness.
> > > The Vedas bring it the attention of "i"
> of the
> > existence of this 'Ananda'.
> > >
> > > In summation, the "i" is a saakshi for
> it is present
> > in all the three
> > > states.  Because of its self-awareness is
> linked to a
> > body that it
> > > identifies itself as "i" it considers
> itself as kartha
> > and bhoktha in
> > > waking
> > > and dream states and non-existent during deep
> sleep. 
> > However being part of
> > > the 'big mind'it is part of the world of
> karma and
> > thus it is inert.  Karma
> > > kim param?  Karma
>  thajjadam exclaims Bhagavan
> > Ramana.  Jadam indeed has no
> >
 > self-awareness.
> > >
> > > Yet the awareness was ever present despite the
> jadam
> > nature of the "i".
> > > That indeed was revealed by the experience of
> > 'Ananda'.  This is first
> > > postulated as the True Saakshi (as in the Geetha
> verse
> > quoted), however
> > > when
> > > the false 'big mind' is rejected by the
> self-inquiry
> > the survivor is known
> > > as the "I" the True Saakshi that has
> nothing to
> > witness! Yes, the True
> > > Saakshi is beyond anubhava!  It is pure
> Ananda.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Anbu sivam2
> <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
 > >
> > > >
> > > > Quote: "The one who
>  was awake even in the
> > deep-sleep state cannot be
> > > > called as pramaata, since the status of
> pramaata
> > comes with tripuTi with
> > > > prameyam and pramANa present. In the
> deep-sleep
> > state, I am pure
> > > saakshii,
> > > > the witnessing consciousness, witnessing
> > ‘nothing or no-thing’.  In fact
> > > > Vedanta says I, as witnessing consciousness,
> am
> > present all the time, in
> > > the
> > > > waking, dream and deep-sleep states.
> ‘tvam’
> > in the ‘tat tvam asi’ refers
> > > to
> > > > that pure witnessing consciousness. 
> All the
> > states of experience come
> > > and
> >
 > > go; I am ever present and ever awake as
> saakshii.
> > Krishna says that
> > > saakshii
> > > > is the universal consciousness, the ever
> present,
> > knower of all fields,
> > > >
>  KshetrajnaH; Kshetrajnam ca api maam viddhi sarva
> > kshetreShu bhaarata;
> > > and
> > > > that forms the mahaavaakya."
> > > >
> > > > The "i" who, in deep sleep,
> experienced nothing
> > (of the world of
> > > > multiplicity) did experience the Ananda of
> the
> > Self for that was the only
> > > > thing that kept his company and so he
> recalls
> > this experience when awake
> > > in
> > > > the words "I slept happily". 
> That was his pure
> > positive
 bhogam.   While
> > > > dreaming and while awake he experiences the
> > bhogam in the form of misram,
> > > > that is both positively and
> negatively.  While
> > awake he claims that he is
> > > a
> > > > karmi for the mere fault of being pressured
> into
> > doing karma which is
> > > always
> > > > painful while in other two
>  states he is merely a
> > bhogi.  This
> > > 'experiencing'
> > > > is suggested as being a witness.  This
> is
> > vaachyaartham.  In
> > > vaachyaartham
> > > > 'i'-who claims to be kartha and
> bhoktha- is part
> > of the mind which in the
> > > > ultimate analysis is found to be
> false. 
> > Therefore the 'i' of the
> >
 > > vaachyaartham is false.
> > > >
> > > > The Kshethragnya is the Self that keeps his
> > company in all three states
> > > and
> > > > the suggestion is that He is the true
> Witness.
> > > >
> > > > The jeeva in ordinary course would not know
> of
> > the Kshethragnya and that
> > > > would make him conclude that he is merely a
> > kartha and a bhoktha
> > > > alternatively, who is born and dead either
> for
> > one time or to repeat in
> > > >
>  endless cycles.  It is to the credit of
> > Prasthaanathrayam that brings to
> > > his
> > > > attention of the existence of the
> Kshethragnya
> > that sends him into the
> > > fresh
> > > > enquiry on the relation between
 him and the
> > Kshethragnya.
> > > >
> > > > Addvaitins contend that the Jeeva is the
> > Kshethragnya in lakshyaartham
> > > and
> > > > if indeed he achieves his lakshya by the
> Grace of
> > his Guru he is sure to
> > > > find that there was never a kshethra in the
> first
> > place!
> > > >
> > > > The suggestion is: Know the true Witness
> (the
> > 'one who was awake even in
> > > > deep-sleep' as Sadanandaji put it) and
> that true
> > Witness is none other
> > > than
> > > > you!
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
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