[Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7

[Suresh Marur]

I agree with Michael on  the benefits of understanding the dream state.
However, IMO, we should avoid analysing the dream itself because it gets us
caught up in another form of cause-effect analysis not very different from
the urge to understand the world (which is a never ending cycle).

The aspect of dream that helps us in contemplation when we are awake is the
ability to intuit the vikshepa shakti of Maya. Otherwise, there is no
equivalent for us to comprehend that a world can be "created" from nothing.
We get the ability to comprehend that the material world we percieve is part
of Ishwara's dream (including our koshas). While Ishwara himself is not
conditioned by avidya, the jiva is conditioned by avidya and caught up in
samsaara.

Were it not for our experience of the dream, there would be no reference for
us to understand this.

To that extent, it may have been part of Ishwara's grace that he endowed us
with this capability. Of course, I am now speculating and will stop here.

- Suresh

On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Michael Shepherd <
michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> I think we have to be very cautious in dismissing the dreaming state as
> some
> sort of lesser existence than the other states. After all, the three
> 'daily'
> states are given us, and we are the same totality of being and qualities
> throughout the day -- though philosophy uses these states as analogies for
> realisation.
> I suspect that the prime significance of the dreaming state is freedom of
> mind. That means that in dreams,, our suppressed emotions from the past may
> play themselves out. And that would go for the 'creative dreaming' of
> artists too.
>
> I don't raise this to argue, but because I think that the 'rubbish' aspect
> of dreams is too easily written off..
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Anbu
> sivam2
> Sent: 26 November 2009 01:38
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
>
>
>
> Dear Sunilji,
>
> The word 'budh' means to wake up.
>
> Knowing a table from a chair is not exactly discrimination but knowing a
> rope is not a snake, is!   This is the kind of discrimination that is
> assigned to the buddhi.
>
> The physical dimensions of space and time is determined by the buddhi.  In
> dream where nothing is physical we have a warped space and time.  Let me
> give you a couple of examples.
>
> I once dreamt that I was going to school to write an exam even though in
> actual life the last time I set my foot at a school was many decades ago!
> It so happened that I set out for the school just a short distance away
> well
> early before the exam is to start in the morning.  Lo and behold! When I
> reached the school it was 5.00 P.M. and the exam was over and there was no
> one!  I immediately realized that I failed in the exam, a shocking
> experience!!  Luckily for me I had gone into deep sleep putting an end to
> the dream!
>
> Again, I once dreamt that I was running away from a guy with only one leg
> who was chasing me!  And he always caught up with me too and I tried to run
> faster!!  It did not occur to me that a lame person could not run and I
> should stop getting frightened.    Actually the moment you might try to
> discriminate the dream will end right there and you will be awake! And when
> it  did occur to me the dream ended and I was awake.
>
> Such is the manifestation of the negative bhogam we suffer with false
> failure in exam and needless running away from a lame chaser!
>
> There is unpredictability reigning supreme in the dream.
>
> Should I do such and such thing?  It is the buddhi that tell me yes or no.
> Thus the buddhi is the true kaarmic agent.  You are aware that karma needs
> the sthoola sareeram  that exists only in waking state.
>
> All predictability remains in the domain of the intellect.  The sharper it
> is the better is the predictability.
>
> It is only because of this buddhi that we could ever apprehend our real
> Self
> but by turning it inwards.
>
> I suppose when Sadanandaji says that in dream the buddhi is in lower grade
> (?!) he means it remains unmanifest.
>
> If you are interested a buddhist url has a detailed study on the word
> buddhi
> that you might want to read.
> http://www.indianetzone.com/37/budh_intelligence_buddhism.htm
>
> By the way you are right in saying that the sookshma sariram contains the
> kaaraNa sariram.  Actually this sookshma sariram (consisting of
> panchendriya, the big mind as I explained before, and the prana) is the one
> that transmigrates and not just the kaaraNa sariram as you say.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
> > wrote:
>
> From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> To: "kuntimaddi sadananda" <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 2:25 AM
>
> Sadanandaji - Pranaams
>
> You said  ////   In dream state, not that intellect is not there - it is at
> lower grade
> than emotional mind - even in dream I do differentiate x vs y in my
> transactions. That discriminative faculty is intellect only.  ////
>
> Thank you for your opinion and I agree with what you said.
>
> In fact the sareeras can be divided into three types and these are the
> Sthula sareera, Sukshma sareera and the Karana sareera. The latter two  are
> also expressed together as Sukshma sareera. I understand that the Karana
> sareera goes to the next birth.
>
> Om Namo Bhagavate Vasudevaya
>
> Sunil
>
> --- On Tue, 11/24/09, kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] A Perspective - 7
> To: "Sunil Bhattacharjya" <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> Date: Tuesday, November 24, 2009, 8:08 PM
>
> Sunilji - PraNAms
>
> Manas and buddhi are part of
>  subtle elements. They are not separate - one is the discriminative faculty
> and other is the emotional faculty. Anupravesha statement of the upanishad
> is accounted by Shankara as entering subtle body to bhoutica shariira. The
> whole sublte body travels from one loka to the other leaving only the gross
> body. vijnaana kosha is superior to the manomaya kosha - Tai Up. Shankara
> says - the consciousness shines more in the intellect first - budhyaaveva
> bhaaseta swaccheshu pratibinbavat - Atma bodha.
>
> In dream state, not that intellect is not there - it is at lower grade than
> emotional mind - even in dream I do differentiate x vs y in my
> transactions.
> That discriminative faculty is intellect only.
> Even in the waking state, the intellect is not in full potential - that is
> what veveka emphasized as one of the requirment for realization - That
> intellect to differentiate the nitya and anitya has to be develped by study
> and saadhana.
>
> I am not
>  familiar with sankhya and miimamsa texts to give any reference - sorry.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Hari Om!
> Sada
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