[Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive

[Anbu sivam2]

Quote: "Would you agree that turiya/atman is closer to us than we pretend ?"

Oh! What a baffling question!

Who are these 'us'?  Do they exist?  By whose divine will?

*The Knower of the Self doesn't know non-self (because he sees everything as
his own self only).  *

Are you going to say the non-self exists but it is non-existant only for the
knower of the Self?!  Some people see 'thrill' in co-existence with
non-existence!  So there is a peddling of choices - be a non-knower and be
blessed with the company of many or be a Knower and lose them all!!?

Alas! there is no choice!  The knower of non-self doesn't know the Self (to
choose) (even if 'he' pretends to know!).

*Since there is nothing other than Aathman one cannot refuse or pretend to
be Aathman!*

If you ever ask the question: "Why do I see non-aathman?"  you could
consider the answer: "I want to see, so I have them."

*Did you realize that it is YOU who sanction the existence or otherwise of
the non-aathman?
*
What is difficult, nay impossible,  would be the denial of the Self.  What
is easy is the denial of the non-self.  You would refuse to accept this
statement only because of your abhimaanam for the non-self.  Nobody is
'born' with 'abhimaanam' for it is not one's nature to have abhimaanam  but
it is a cultivated one!

Yes sir, NONE IS BORN!

On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 6:22 PM, Michael Shepherd <
michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Ramesh, thanks, Most of the sages say the same -- the first taste of
> samadhi
> can throw you off track.. but its honey becomes irresistible, and from then
> on it's up to the individual to increase the dosage !
>
> Ramana says that the first experience of pure atman is that between
> thoughts; hence his vichara system.
>
> Would you agree that turiya/atman is closer to us than we pretend ?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> [mailto:advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org]On Behalf Of Ramesh
> Krishnamurthy
> Sent: 12 October 2009 16:29
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually
> supportive
>
>
>
> Here is a relevant excerpt from the book "Yoga, Enlightenment &
> Perfection of Sri Abhinava Vidyatirtha Mahaswamigal". My comments in
> [..]
>
> Quote
> -----------------------------
> "A weary traveller may hear from a trustworthy person familiar with
> the region that the water he is seeing in the desert is a mirage.
> [Comment: This is equivalent to shravana]. He may then reason that
> such should be the case. Yet his wanting to assuage his thirst may
> impede his firmly realising that only desert sand stretches in front
> of him. Were he to move on to a new position and the sun were to be
> temporarily blocked by a thick layer of clouds, he might see just sand
> where he once saw the mirage. He might begin to perceive the mirage
> again a little later. Nonetheless, the temporary disappearance of the
> mirage would highly facilitate his firmly realising the truth of what
> he had been told and reflected upon [Comment: compare this with
> shravana-manana]. The thorough vanishing of duality during samadhi
> would, for Me, be helpful, like the temporary disappearance of the
> mirage for this hypothetical traveller."
>
> [Comment: The Acharya goes on to describe several instances of NS he
> achieved over a period of 5 days in the year 1935. The first such
> instance is described as follows:]
>
> "Sitting in the siddhasana, I performed two cycles of pranayama
> together with the jalandhara, uddiyana and mula bandha-s to promote
> mental tranquility..........I felt myself expanding and becoming like
> space. The sense of I nearly vanished and My mind entered savikalpa
> samadhi.
>
> The bliss was very great. However, with effort, I restrained Myself
> from being overwhelmed by it and thought, "I am not the one
> experiencing bliss but am bliss itself." In a trice, a sharp change
> occurred. Awareness of the distinction of the concentrator,
> concentration and the object of concentration completely disappeared.
> No more was there any sense of individuality or of space, time and
> objects. Only Brahman, of the nature of absolute existence, pure
> consciousness and ultimate bliss, shone bereft of the superimposition
> of even a trace of duality............Though the bliss of savikalpa
> samadhi was by far greater than the joy of any worldly enjoyment, it
> was nothing compared to the absolute non-dual bliss of nirvikalpa
> samadhi"
> ----------------------------------
> Unquote
>
> Later, he makes two very interesting statements:
>
> 1. "That Brahman is all was as clear as a fruit in one's palm".
> [comment: this is of course a commonly used metaphor]
>
> 2."I should not become attached to nirvikalpa samadhi under the
> delusion that for its
> duration I become one with Brahman". [comment: this is a clinching
> statement to show that samadhi per se is not mukti. One is always
> Brahman, irrespective of whether one is in samadhi or not. The clear
> understanding of this is mukti. Samadhi, as illustrated above, can
> help in gaining this understanding. But in itself it is neither
> necessary nor sufficient.]
>
> Thanks
> Ramesh
>
> 2009/10/12 Michael Shepherd <michael at shepherd87.fsnet.co.uk>:
> > Rameshji,
> >
> > Abhinava's book is out of print already. Could you offer a very brief
> account of the incident you mention ? Others might like to hear of it too.
> >
> > Michael
> >
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