[Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually supportive

[Anbu sivam2]

Dear Sunilji,

Viswamithra was a very rare exception.  Rather than saying he became a
Brahmana I would say he became a Brahmagnaani.  I have already posted
elsewhere that a person can attain Brahmagnaana irrespective of the varna or
aasrama he is in.  Such a view is fully compatible with the Vedic view.

Regarding your contention on Buddha I take it that you have better
knowledge.  However the truth remains that the Buddhists had no respect for
varnasrama dharma and they admitted everyone - men and women - into their
sangham.

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <
sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Anbu Sivamji,
>
> Two offshoots from your mail.
>
> 1)
> Vishwamitra changed his varna. Is this a violation of the norms you cited?
> 2)
> Lord Budhha did not teach everything to everybody. The basics were taught
> to everybody in the beginning and that is the Hinayana teachings. Twenty two
> years after that he taught the higher teachings of Mahayana to  the select
> group, mostly including the Brahmin disciples. And quite some years after
> that he taught the Vajrayana teachings to even fewer disciples, who were
> intent on quick liberation. Vajrayana is somewhat akin to Sre-Vidya. He
> taught the highest teachings in a non-conventional way as he was oath-bound
> not to teach the Vedas, according to Madam Blavatsky, who had an in-depth
> knowledge of Buddhism. Of course we read that Lord Buddha promised to take
> birth in a brahmin family as Maitreya Buddha to teach jnana. Thaty is why
> A.P.Sinnett, the famous theosophist, said that Adi Sankaracharya was the
> Maitreya Buddha, the Lord Buddha reborn.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sunil K. Bhattacharjya
>
>
> --- On Tue, 10/20/09, Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Anbu sivam2 <anbesivam2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Re: waking, dreaming, sleeping, as mutually
>  supportive
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Tuesday, October 20, 2009, 4:35 PM
>
> Quote: "There is also no guarantee that knowing Atman is nearest to the
> brAhmaNa and progressively farther away for other varNa-s."
>
> In quite a few of my postings I have reiterated the Vedic view that all are
> Brahman and therefore everyone has a right to know himself.  Yes of course,
> we are Brahman but we do not know!  If it is not for the Veda we would
> never
> know.
>
> I have also time and again posted our Lord's view that there are four-fold
> paths to attaining Brahman.  What is unfortunate is that people try to take
> that it is optional for anyone to pick and choose the path.  There is no
> scriptural support to such a view.  I will be delighted to know if there is
> any.  However I hasten to add that such option would vitiate the varnasrama
> dharma.  Buddhists opened the gnana maarga (however faulty it was) to one
> and all and that upset sooner than later the social harmony based on
> varnasrama dharma.  The rajas realized this and reverted back to Hinduism.
> Yathaa raaja thathaa praja.  Buddhism slowly lost its grip on the Indian
> masses.
>
> So let me restate my view.  ALL ARE BRAHMAN ONLY THAT WE DO NOT KNOW.  IT
> IS
> THE VEDA THAT TELL US THAT WE ARE BRAHMAN WITHOUT WHICH WE WOULD EVER BE
> DROWNED IN IGNORANCE. OUR LORD IN BHAGAVAT GEETHA TOLD US THAT THERE ARE
> FOUR PATHS OF ATTAINING HIM (WHICH ENTAILS ONE TO BEING BRAHMAN AND KNOWING
> BRAHMAN).
>
> Quote: "Ultimately, mumukshutva and knowing/being brahman are beyond all
> dharma-s."
>
> It is true that knowing Brahman is Being Brahman and vice versa so much so
> it is absolute and cannot be conditioned by dharma.
>
> Bhishma says that Brahman is Sarvadharma.
>
> *I fail to understand why a mumukshu is clubbed with Brahman and held to be
> beyond dharma. * A mumukshu is a seeker of Brahman and therefore not a
> knower of Brahman.  I therefore have to disagree that a mumukshu is beyond
> dharma.  I hope you realize that even a sanyaasi has to conform to his
> dharma otherwise he will forfeit his aashrama.
>
> Secondly the term mumukshu is applied to the one who seeks gnaana maarga
> only.
>
> My view is that the gnaana maarga is apt only for the Brahmanas because of
> the guna composition of his varna and not suitable for persons of other
> varnas for the same reason.  A mumukshu becomes a sanyaasi on the
> initiation
> by a Guru and on realization becomes a Guru himself.  Such ability to
> impart
> knowledge is part of realization.  The Sankara, Vaishnava and Maadhva Mutts
> are examples of who had the adhikaaram to become a Sanyaasi.  Those who
> realized through other maargas seldom competed for such adhikaaras.
>
>
> Quote: "In my personal experience with people, the mental block provided by
> pride in high birth is often a huge one."
>
> Such abhimaanam is born of ignorance and those abhimaanis would not qualify
> to be mumukshus. However this cannot be the reason to open up gnaana maarga
> to all varnas.  We have seen time and again that such people treading into
> this continue to see the Truth differently all the time trying to refashion
> it!
>
> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <
> svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > > Quote: "This has nothing to do with modern secular ideas of equality,
> but
> > it
> > > has everything to do with developing the qualities needed for a
> mumukshu.
> > > Please read the prose chapters of upadeSasAhasrI to get Sankara
> > > bhagavatpAda's own words on the subject."
> > >
> > >
> > > This is truly arbitrary and out of hand rejection of a view of
> guna-karma
> > > vibhagam that is held fundamental to the Hindu view. I hope you have
> had
> > > time to read my fully delineated rendition in my musings posted in this
> > > forum on this subject of Guna in relation to the secular views.
> >
> >
> > I am not taking any stance with respect to guNa-karma-vibhAga here at
> all.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am also not talking of svadharma and paradharma here.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ultimately, mumukshutva and knowing/being brahman are beyond all
> dharma-s.
> >
> > However, being born a brAhmaNa does not guarantee that mumukshutva arises
> >
> > in the mind. There is also no guarantee that knowing Atman is nearest to
> > the
> >
> > brAhmaNa and progressively farther away for other varNa-s.
> >
> >
> >
> > In my personal experience with people, the mental block provided by pride
> > in
> >
> > high birth is often a huge one. That is all. Please do remember that the
> > saMnyAsin
> >
> > is required to shed not only personal property and home, but also the
> varNa
> > and
> >
> > gotra given by birth.
> >
> >
> >
> > Vidyasankar
> >
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