[Advaita-l] Brahmana and Vaishnava

[S Jayanarayanan]

--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> In response to the below, though this
> is not a gaudiya forum:
> 
> "ISKCON is well aware of this verse, as evidenced by
> Prabhupada quoting it
> during his talk on Varnasrama. This is a huge problem in
> ISKCON - their
> claim that they are "Vaishnavas who run afoul of
> Varnasrama" is ridiculous,
> to say the least. But they don't stop there, for they also
> turn around and
> claim that they are indeed following Varnasrama, but not
> according to birth!
> The whole situation is a confused mess with no
> understanding of Varnasrama
> Dharma or being a Vaishnava!"
> 
> It is not true that ISKCON gives Brahmana or Karma Sannyasa
> Initiation.

Really?

http://www.iskcon.com.my/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=521:one-stop-initiation-centre-at-sjmkl&catid=53:happenings&Itemid=27

"Eighty four devotees took Harinam Initiation and about 40 devotees took Brahmin Initiation from Srila Jayapataka in front of Sri Sri Jagannatha Baladeva Subhadra Devi, Sri Sri Nitai Gaura Sundara at the Sri Jagannatha Mandir, ISKCON Kuala Lumpur."

http://www.iskcon-london.org/newsletters.html?start=12

Newsletter August 2008
"Karuna Sindhu dasa received his brahmin initiation on the same day too."

http://mihet.org/node/4

"From a letter Prabhupada had his secretary send out to the GBC to convey his directions:...His Divine Grace therefore wishes to institute examinations to be given to all prospective candidates for sannyasa and brahmana initiation. In addition he wishes that all present sannyasis and brahmanas also pass the examination."

http://www.patheos.com/Library/ISKCON-(Hare-Krishna)/Ritual-Worship-Devotion-Symbolism/Rites-and-Ceremonies.html

"The second initiation marks full admission into ISKCON, again functioning as a symbolic rebirth. The ceremony draws on the traditional Hindu rite by which members of the three highest castes become "twice-born." In keeping with Bhaktivedanta's own guru Bhaktisiddhanta's innovations, ISKCON offers this ceremony to any individual regardless of caste. This is important, since Hinduism has traditionally looked at non-Indians as casteless, and therefore unable to engage in the twice-born rite. During the ritual, new initiates become equivalent to Brahmins, the highest caste of Hinduism, receiving knowledge of the sacred gayatri mantra and a sacred thread marking them as twice-born."

> The
> Brahmana Initiation in ISKCON is to
> perform Deity worship
> according to
> Narada Pancaratra, which some scholars consider to be
> apocryphal.

So you're now saying that there does exist Brahmana initiation in ISKCON after all?!

Sorry, but I could not be less interested in ISKCON and their anything-goes-who-cares-about-the-Vedas Dharma. I have to stop here!

> ISKCON
> brahmanas are not entitled or required to perform fire
> sacrifice. They are
> never given Karma Sannyasa.
> 
> The apparent confusion is because of mixing up the
> categories of devotees in
> Baladeva's definition. sanishta devotees have to strictly
> follow
> varnashrama. parinishta devotees follow varnashrama though
> they are
> transcendental to it. nirapeksha devotees do not follow
> varnashrama
> _______________________________________________