[Advaita-l] On becoming Hindu and Caste
mc1 at aol.com
mc1 at aol.com
Mon Aug 30 14:41:04 CDT 2010
Om Hari,
What is caste ... really? Shastric reference to caste mostly relate to purity and mental attributes. Birth alone doesn't render purity nor are people's bodies pure in and of themselves. It is obvious the hierarchy of caste refers to mental disposition - to the gunas: sattva:brahmana; ragas:ksatriya, etc. There may be Prejudice, Taboo and Dogma tied to caste but what in life is really ever free of P,T &D? Ultimately, it's all superimposed ignorance.
Didn't Gandhi say something like, except for hierarchy of values, caste was a fine system for ordering society. Indeed, caste honors the intellectual, poetic, & educated; the spiritual, self-controlled, & well balanced; while discouraging overwrought & unrealistic ambitions as well as drives based on mere selfless and material gain.
This, of course, is the idealistic view still for the reflective Advaitin, something to consider, methinks.
Om Shanti, michael c.
advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
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Dear Sunil and all,
Kanchi Acharya has explained Gita 4-13 that varna is by birth. See
www.kamakoti.org and click Hindu Dharma and view relevant chapters.
Swami Ramsukhdasji in his translation of Gita has mentioned the same and also
Shri Raj Pandit Sharma of HCUK has given translation of Adi Shankara's comment
on Gita 4-1
I have read on a Madhva site about (dvaita.org is not working) Gita commenting
that varna refers to varna of soul (different than all other sampradayas) but
that varna by birth should befollowed re: nitya-karmas, marriage, etc.
I am sure re: Vajrasooschika U. My understanding is that birth is initial
definition but guna on top of it is important. I think this was discussed
before on this list.
Jaldhar Vyas has provided shastric support of varna by birth before on this list
and other lists. Perhaps he could comment on Vajrassochika U.
Ravi Chandrasekhara
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - one possible solution?
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 12:41 PM
> Dear Raviji,
> ?
> Namaste,
> ?
> Lord Krishna said about division accoring to gunakarma.
> Vajrasoochika Upanishad tells us?that? varna is not
> related to birth. How can you be so sanguine in your views?
> ?
> Regards,
> ?
> Sunil K.? Bhattacharjya
> ?
> ?
> ?
>
> --- On Sat, 8/28/10, ravi chandrasekhara <vadhula at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> From: ravi chandrasekhara <vadhula at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - one possible
> solution?
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Saturday, August 28, 2010, 5:24 PM
>
>
> Dear Sunil and all,
>
> Caste, is loosely translated as jaathi.
> Jaathi dharma is basically same as varna dharma.
> This was also stated by Kanchi Shankaracharya,
> Chandrasekharendra Saraswati. IMHO, the 3 major sampradayas
> concur with this.
>
> Ravi Chandrasekhara
>
> --- On Sat, 8/28/10, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - one possible
> solution?
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Saturday, August 28, 2010, 12:14 PM
> > The caste system as is known now was
> > created by the British for the census purposes. It
> appears
> > that the present government may continue this practice
> of
> > our past masters, Alberuni however gives quite a
> different
> > picture.
> >
> > --- On Sat, 8/28/10, Abhilash Shastry <abhilash.shastry at yahoo.co.in>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Abhilash Shastry <abhilash.shastry at yahoo.co.in>
> > Subject: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - one possible
> > solution?
> > To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> > Date: Saturday, August 28, 2010, 4:49 AM
> >
> >
> > This is such an arrogant discussion.
> >
> > People?talking patronizingly as if they are burdened
> with
> > a sense of heavy
> > responsibility toward those unfortunate creatures who
> did
> > not get born as Hindus
> > -quoting from this and that shastraa. Whom are we
> deluding
> > here? The world is
> > not flocking?at our doors to convert to Hinduism.
> There
> > are just a handful of
> > romanticists who are probably unaware of the inequity
> > imbuilt within Hinduism
> > who want to come to Hinduism. Give them an honest
> answer
> > about Hinduism and its
> > caste system and half of them?would not bother again
> to
> > convert. Rest would be
> > of a sturdier material and would be well off either
> way
> > whether you place them
> > in a high or low or left or right caste.
> >
> > Namaskar
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > ? ? ?
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
>
> ? ? ?
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:08:10 +0530
From: "sriram" <srirudra at vsnl.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - one possible solution?
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Message-ID: <000001cb4843$a57afaa0$6400a8c0 at krishnam>
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reply-type=original
Dear
It was not a question of people flocking to get converted to Hinduism.The
issue is those who sinerely want to pursue spiritualism having the
conviction that Hindu Dharma will be definitely conducive for their growth
and they want to feel that they are Hindus only after a suitable conversion
process they can feel at home and pursue the shastras ordained rituals etc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Abhilash Shastry" <abhilash.shastry at yahoo.co.in>
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 5:19 PM
Subject: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - one possible solution?
This is such an arrogant discussion.
People talking patronizingly as if they are burdened with a sense of heavy
responsibility toward those unfortunate creatures who did not get born as
Hindus
-quoting from this and that shastraa. Whom are we deluding here? The world
is
not flocking at our doors to convert to Hinduism. There are just a handful
of
romanticists who are probably unaware of the inequity imbuilt within
Hinduism
who want to come to Hinduism. Give them an honest answer about Hinduism and
its
caste system and half of them would not bother again to convert. Rest would
be
of a sturdier material and would be well off either way whether you place
them
in a high or low or left or right caste.
Namaskar
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 19:44:26 +0530
From: "sriram" <srirudra at vsnl.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - one possible solution?
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Message-ID: <002b01cb484d$a7a919b0$6400a8c0 at krishnam>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Dear
Sorry .The earlier response to your mail got away before I could
finish.Continuing that-without inviting comments that they are pseudo Hindus
and that they are having ulterior motives to have joined Hinduism.Yes
Hinduism is have its own defective system if i may call so having casteism
and discreminations and so on.But nothing to beat its freedom in thinking
and find the Truth for yourselves ably assisted by Upanishidic
revelaltions.R.Krishnamoorthy.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Abhilash Shastry" <abhilash.shastry at yahoo.co.in>
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta"
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 5:19 PM
Subject: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - one possible solution?
This is such an arrogant discussion.
People talking patronizingly as if they are burdened with a sense of heavy
responsibility toward those unfortunate creatures who did not get born as
Hindus
-quoting from this and that shastraa. Whom are we deluding here? The world
is
not flocking at our doors to convert to Hinduism. There are just a handful
of
romanticists who are probably unaware of the inequity imbuilt within
Hinduism
who want to come to Hinduism. Give them an honest answer about Hinduism and
its
caste system and half of them would not bother again to convert. Rest would
be
of a sturdier material and would be well off either way whether you place
them
in a high or low or left or right caste.
Namaskar
_______________________________________________
Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:54:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - varna
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Message-ID: <777242.33869.qm at web113309.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Dear friends,
?
It is true that past karna decides the birth in a particular varna but is there
any guarantee that one born in a braahman family remains a braahman irrespective
of whether one's action in this birth is befitting the braahman varna.?One can
be fallen braahman even if ione is born in the braahman family. By dint of his
karma Vishwamitra became braahman though he was not a braahman by birth.
?
Regards,
?
Sunil K.? Bhattacharjya
.
?
?
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, ravi chandrasekhara <vadhula at yahoo.com> wrote:
From: ravi chandrasekhara <vadhula at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Becoming Hindu - varna
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 12:17 PM
Dear Sunil and all,
Kanchi Acharya has explained Gita 4-13 that varna is by birth. See
www.kamakoti.org and click Hindu Dharma and view relevant chapters.
Swami Ramsukhdasji in his translation of Gita has mentioned the same and also
Shri Raj Pandit Sharma of HCUK has given translation of Adi Shankara's comment
on Gita 4-13.
I have read on a Madhva site about (dvaita.org is not working) Gita commenting
that varna refers to varna of soul (different than all other sampradayas) but
that varna by birth should befollowed re: nitya-karmas, marriage, etc.
I am sure re: Vajrasooschika U.? My understanding is that birth is initial
definition but guna on top of it is important.? I think this was discussed
before on this list.
Jaldhar Vyas has provided shastric support of varna by birth before on this list
and other lists.? Perhaps he could comment on Vajrassochika U.
Ravi Chandrasekhara
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