[Advaita-l] FW: Avidya, Jnanis and SSS' views

[Bhaskar YR]

sAshtAnga praNAms Sri Vidya prabhuji
Hare Krishna

Very sorry for the belated reply prabhuji. 

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

Bhaskar, it is a pity that you choose to characterize my responses as
'firing', when all I am doing is trying to be as patient and reasonable as
possible in showing where errors are being made. If I remember right, it
was you who used a metaphor of firing a pistol, a month or so ago!
Anyway, here is a brief response.

bhaskar :

I dont know prabhuji, somehow I feel that nowadays your mail lacking that 
emphathetic style that you used to during my 'hare krishna' days...Anyway, 
I think this is only my perception due to undue expectations from your 
goodself...Sorry for misreading your intention prabhuji. 
 

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

I have drawn attention previously to the fact that the bhagavatpAda talks 
of relative jnAna-pravRtti-
daurbalya (NOT jnAna-daurbalya) in bRhadAraNyaka bhAshya. The situation in 
the muNDaka bhAshya with respect to the varishTha among brahmavit-s is 
similar.

bhaskar :

Since you have reiterated twice that it is NOT jnAna daurbalya but ONLY 
jnAna pravrutti daurbalya in a jnAni, I'd like to get clarification & more 
details about this jnAna pravrutti daurbalya!!  what exactly is this jnAna 
pravrutti daurbalya??  without jnAna being affected, can pravrutti of that 
jnAna on its own become durbala?? how can it be possible prabhuji I am not 
able to understand!!  For example, I have an intact jnAna of the rope & 
I've realized that there is no snake there!!  and my attitude and 
activities (pravrutti) would be according to this jnAna 'correct jnAna' of 
the rope only...I cannot runway from the scene or bringing the stick to 
hit the snake without my 'jnAna' about the rope being affected is it not 
prabhuji??  If the jnAni has the absolute non-dual samyak jnAna his 
pravrutti also must be according to this jnAna only..if he starts doing 
abnormal things then it means jnAna what he had earlier is deteriorating 
and due to this jnAna effacement he is getting some vipareeta pratyaya-s 
in his mind and due to which his pravrutti also getting affected...But 
shankara categorically denies any vipareeta pratyaya in a jnAni in the 
same upanishad's subsequent maNtra...So, with my limited knowledge, it is 
hard for me to understand ONLY jnAna pravrutti daurbalya when jnAni's 
jnAna if perfect & intact. 

Kindly dont think I am questioning shankara's interpretation here about 
jnAna pravrutti daurbalya..I am just asking for your kind clarification 
with regard to jnAna pravrutti daurbalya bereft of jnAna daurbalya. 

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

Under the circumstances, please let me know the following. Is it your
own view and interpretation about krama-mukti, saguNopAsana and
holding that the comparison here is with saguNa-brahma-vit-s? Or
does Sankara bhagavatpAda himself say so in the muNDaka bhAshya? 

bhaskar :

Though it is my understanding of the bhAshya vAkya, I dont think it can be 
a push aside thought since shankara himself didnot talk about grades like 
vara, variya-s in the class of absolute brahma jnAni-s in mundaka 
upanishat. 

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

If the former, instead of understanding the passage according to what
seems appropriate to your own mind, isn't it better to understand with
respect to what Sankara has himself written elsewhere? 

bhaskar :

I agree with you prabhuji..but sofar I've not seen any substantial reason 
or justification in shankara bhAshya to believe that there exists 
gradations in absolute jnAna nishTa-s. 

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

Specifically, in the muNDaka bhAshya passage under consideration, isn't it 
more
appropriate to view this tAratamya as relating to dur-bala, su-bala,
balatara and balatama in jnAna-pravRtti? 

bhaskar :

again it's all depend upon how your goodself negotiate the exclusivity of 
jnAna pravrutti daurbalya while keeping the jnAna intact.  Hope I am not 
arguing with you too much. 

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

To repeat that brahmajnAna is ekarUpa, as if I were denying that point,
is to wilfully misunderstand and misrepresent what I have said. 

bhaskar :

sentences like the above where I find the fire line nowadays 
prabhuji...Despite knowing my high & esteemed regards to you, it is sad 
that you are blaming me for deliberately misrepresenting your 
stand...Kindly pardon me prabhuji that is not at all my intention..I 
regret that I have to say all these inspite of our long association :-((

Sri Vidya prabhuji : 

It is even more ironic, given how just last week, you used the term jnAna-
daurbalya with respect to the bRhadAraNyaka bhAshya and talked of
protecting the jnAna and the intensity of the jnAna. 

bhaskar :

I must confess here that even now I donot know the pravrutti daurbalya 
what you are talking about without bringing jnAna daurbalya into 
picture...To the best of my ability I tried to explain my problem 
above...Kindly clarify it prabhuji.

Sri Vidya prabhuji :

after samyag-jnAna-prApti, which may be compromised by the avaSyaM
bhAvinI-pravRtti of vAk, manas and kAya. The brahmavid-varishTha
is he in whom this jnAna-pravRtti is balishTha.

bhaskar :

but have you noticed the difference between your interpretation of 
brahmavidvarishTa and the interpretation that says varishTa is the ONE who 
never ever come from nirvikalpa samAdhi!!  As per the later definition, 
you cannot just have the living or active brahmavid varishTa...Do you 
agree with the linking of grades of jnAna nishta-s with the experience of 
nirvikalpa samAdhi & means of return from that state prabhuji??  Kindly 
note I am not prioritizing sUtra bhAshya over other bhAshya to come to 
this conclusion & asking you this question!! it is what has been said in 
the same thread...

Regards,

Vidyasankar

Your humble servant
Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar