[Advaita-l] Does Brahman Know?

[Ananth Padmanabhan]

Namaskar and thanks to Sarmaji

Nāntah-prajñam, na bahih prajñam, no'bhayatah-prajñam na
prajnañāghanam, na prajñam, na-aprajñam;  
adriṣhtam-avyavahārayam-agrahyam-alakshanam-acintyam
avyapadeśyam-ekātmapratyayasāram prapancopaśamam
śāntam, śivam-advaitam caturtham
manyante, sa ātmā sa vijñeyah.  ....                              ( Mandukya Upanishad 7)


That is known as the fourth quarter: neither inward-turned nor 
outward-turned consciousness, nor the two together; not an 
indifferentiated mass of consciousness; neither knowing, nor unknowing; 
invisible, ineffable, intangible, devoid of characteristics, 
inconceivable, indefinable, its sole essence being the consciousness of 
its own Self; the coming to rest of all relative existence; utterly 
quiet; peaceful; blissful: without a second: this is the Ātman, the 
Self; this is to be realised.


with Namaskar and thanks
Padmanabhan

> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 19:51:30 +0530
> From: dvnsarma at gmail.com
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Does Brahman Know?
> 
> nonta.h prajnam na bahishprajnam nobhyata.h prajnam
> na prajnam nAprajnam na prajnana ghanam
> 
> mANDUkya upanishad.
> 
> regards,
> Sarma.
> 
> On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Ananth Padmanabhan <
> padmanabhan_ananth at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Agreed that the Chaitanyam end-state goal of a mumukshu and is the
> > 'advaitic' state where the 'observer-observation-observed' all collapse
> > together in to a non-dual state that is 'Brahman'. This is where the Subject
> > fuses with the predicate and object as one Blissful state.
> > The examples of the bee-honey, human-iddli&chutney are all stages that one
> > has to cross over to reach this ultimate state. As Bhagavan Sri Ramana
> > Maharishi has stated in his 'Naan Yaar (Who Am I?)' , all the material used
> > to understand the 'SELF' have to be  given up , or rather go away, at the
> > ultimate 'Self Realization' and he uses the example of the 'pinamchudu
> > thadi' (the stick that is used to make sure that the body is fully cremated
> > to ashes by the person at the graveyard who manages the cremation, finally
> > throws the stick also in to the fire to become ashes!).
> >
> > For every mumukshu, the paths to Realization vary (as the scriptures
> > portray) and some unique paths are also possible. Even Iddli-Chutney-Flour
> > example could trigger a mumukshu to understand the unitary State. It is all
> > driven by the Ultimate GRACE that makes itself understood and reached.
> > Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharishi realized HIS SELF from his own strange
> > experience of 'simulated death' and subsequent enquiry within HIMSELF that
> > resolved the mystery to reach HIMSELF.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 23:17:41 +0530
> > > From: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> > > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Does Brahman Know?
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:47 AM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
> > > rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Ishwara* *knows nirguna brahman and its exstence as Himself, jIvA and
> > > > jagat.
> > > > He is also infinitely blissful. His devotees experience this bliss (as
> > > > visuddha sattva does not obstruct). There are infinite attributes and
> > > > experiences through karma, yoga and bhakti. Each one of these and the
> > > > experience of jnana is also known to Ishwara (Lord Krishna says that
> > there
> > > > is nothing hire than jnana. So he must know that experience also). When
> > a
> > > > jIvA realizes Ishwara, he can get any or all of these experiences
> > because
> > > > Ishwara favours His devotees with sarsti etc. A jIvA who is attracted
> > to
> > > > Ishwara with the intention of becoming absolutely one with Him might
> > > > consider that goal is achieved at some stage. But in reality, does he
> > reach
> > > > the same state as Vishnu of omniscience and omnipotence? Or does he get
> > > > tricked in to a state by Vishnu that he thinks there is no Vishnu,
> > jagat
> > > > etc.? One who likes idli will eat it with chutney but not want to
> > become
> > > > flour.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Namaste.
> > >
> > > Vedanta does not present Brahman as a bhogya vastu, an object that is to
> > be
> > > experienced/enjoyed. Any bhogya vastu is inert.  When a man is said to
> > have
> > > people as bhogya is not experiencing the chaitanya but only the body,
> > mind,
> > > etc. which all are prakRti and inert.  On the other hand Vedanta teaches
> > > that the aspirant is none other than Brahman.  Brahman is taught as
> > > 'vijnAnam Anandam Brahma'.  Brahman IS Bliss.  The Upanishads do not say
> > > 'Brahman experiences Bliss'.  Such a propostion would make Brahman a
> > > something/someone different from Bliss and the Bliss itself an inert
> > > object.  The Upanishad also teaches 'He who realizes Brahman is Brahman',
> > > 'You are That', 'I am Brahman', etc.  Such a realization does not
> > > *require*the Knower to 'experience' the Bliss
> > > *of *Brahman, for, as stated earlier, Brahman IS Bliss; Brahman is not
> > the
> > > 'experiencer' of Bliss.  Since the one who realizes Brahman IS Brahman,
> > the
> > > question of 'experiencing' (as a transitive verb)  Brahman/Bliss is
> > simply
> > > not there at all in the Vedantic moksha. The analogies of sugar-taster of
> > > sugar, Idli-chutney and the eater thereof, etc. do not have any relevance
> > in
> > > the *final stages *of Vedanta sadhana, realization and moksha.  All the
> > > vibhutis of Brahman that a devotee might find enjoyable/blissful are also
> > > inert alone.  Even 'persons/gods' named as vibhutis of Brahman are
> > > essentially Chaitanyam, none other than that Brahman but their name/form
> > > belong to prakRti.  The teaching of Vibhuti-s and  their adoration is a
> > > stepping stone for the final culmination of transcending even this stage
> > and
> > > realizing the identity with Brahman, free of all manifestations
> > > (vibhuti-s).  This is because, the experiencer/adorer of these vibhuti-s
> > is
> > > a someone with the instruments/apparatus with which alone this adoration
> > is
> > > possible.  This apparatus is taught to be prakRti, not the essential
> > > chaitanyam which alone is this adorer in truth.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > subrahmanian.v
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > >
> > > For assistance, contact:
> > > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> 
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> 
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org