[Advaita-l] Questions on Mayavada by Krishna

Venkatesh Murthy vmurthy36 at gmail.com
Sat Oct 9 10:59:17 CDT 2010

Kindly study the life of Chaitanya you will understand he got many non
Brahmin followers. He converted even Muslims to Vaishnavas.  As a
matter of fact Vaishnavas with only the Vaikhanasas exception have not
preserved pure Brahmin culture at any time.  They mix with non
Brahmins.  The Smarthas only have preserved Brahmin culture the
Vaishnavas are impure in this way. They took lot of non Brahmins and
converted them.   Adi Sankara did not take non Brahmin followers.
IskCon continues the encouragement of non Brahmins very much.  They
even praise Puranas and non Vedic granthas like Pancharatra more than
Vedas. This is the background.

If you explain to Vaishnavas the pure philosophy Advaita they get a
headache. Why? They cannot understand it. How can a dull person
understand Advaita? For them singing bhajans and Hari Katha is good .
We should not worry. Advaita is for pure and intelligent people like
Smarthas.  But dull heads are jealous like the fox.  It jumped to get
grapes but could not reach it. So it said grapes are sour. The
Vaishnavas cannot understand Advaita. So they say Advaita is bad it is
like Buddhism it is Mayavada. Grapes are sour.



On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Rajaram Venkataramani
<rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Krishna,
> For the Padma Purana verses quoted by you (mayavadam asat sastram), no
> advaita acharya has given any refutation. When I asked the question, the
> scholars on this forum dismissed this verseoff  as an interpolation. It is
> not possible to call it a gaudiya interpolation because even before gaudiyas
> other sampradayas refer to prachanna bauddham and rudra sampandham of
> sankara based on this verse. There are four recensions of Padma Purana
> extant today. I have not been able to check the manuscripts personally but
> learn that all of them contain Uttara Khanda where this occurs.
> Leave this verse alone. The fundamental question is, "Is Lord's name, form,
> qualities and lila absolute or relative?". It is a fundamental question
> because you need to know as a devotee if you are attracted to relative or
> absolute truth when worshipping Rama. According to gaudiyas, there is no
> difference between the Lord and His body (abhinjnatva nama namine). Devoted
> advaitins such as Madhusudana Saraswati also state that there is no
> difference between the Lord and His body. (Rf. Sri Madhusudana's commentary
> on ajo api san). Visvanath Chakravarthy Thakur, a gaudiya acharya, quotes
> Sri Madhusudana respectfully in his commentary to the same verse. Sridhara
> Swamin, claimed by advaitins and Vaishnavas both as their own, also
> considers the body of the Lord is non-different from His soul. Though there
> are such statements, the traditional advaita position is that  Isvara's
> name, form, qualities and lila are mithya or products of maya. On
> liberation, there is no maya or its effects such as Isvara's form and
> activities - no devotion. This is why gaudiyas call them mayavadins though
> advaitins call themselves brahmavadins. Yes, advaitins realize brahmanandam
> (by Isvaranugraha!!!). But gaudiyas are more interested in relishing the
> nama, rupa, guna and lila than relishing ananda bereft of Isvara's
> attributes. They just dont want to relish that in this life until liberation
> or as a mere means of liberation. They want to do it eternally (mama janmani
> janmanisvare bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki tvayi) because they are attracted to
> Rama and Krishna like a bee is attracted to the nectar in a flower or a
> newly wed to her husband.. They dont want to be disturbed from this
> absorption in the transcendental attributes of Isvara. When the Lord is
> waiting to do your bidding, will you worry about liberation? For His
> devotees, the Lord performs wonderful pastimes such as carrying foot wear,
> riding chariot, dancing, playing flute, washing the feet, eating remnants,
> fighting, advising, becoming a messenger, stealing butter, smiling
> enchantingly etc. For such devotees, liberation is like hasthamalaka
> because they are absorbed in sureshvara's padmapada glorifying Him with
> perfect hymns in totaka. The Lord promises that His devotees will never
> perish and He will swiftly deliver them.
> Advaitins consider devotion to be relative transecended on realization of
> nameless, formless, attributeless, actionless nirguna brahman. It is
> interesting that Madhusudana Saraswati says that a jivan mukta is Vishnu
> bhakta and so does Vidyaranya. Sadasiva Brahmendral, considered a jivan
> mukta, sang chaste verses glorifying Rama, Krishna and Nirguna Brahman. But
> the advaita position is that this bhakti in a jivan mukta is residual effect
> of prarabda. Madusudana talks about samyama or a practice that removes karma
> vasana but he himself did not let go of his deovtion to Krishna!!! Which
> sane person would? Madhusudana distinguishes karma and bhakti, which is
> perhaps why he did not get rid of bhakti.  He also describes three stages of
> devotion. At the first stage a devotee thinks I am His (santa, dasya,
> sakhya). In the second stage he realizes He is mine (sakhya, vatsalya,
> madhurya) and in the final stage realizes I am He (madhurya). It is not that
> "dualists" do not accept this stage of devotion in oneness. Baladev, a
> gaudiya acharya, comments on a devotee realizing oneness (gopalaham). Rupa
> Gosvami, another gaudiya acharya, talks about realization of nirguna
> brahman.
> Krishna knows I am Brahman. Does Brahman know I am Krishna? As knowledge is
> an aspect of maya, Brahman does not.
> I am happy to be corrected.
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