[Advaita-l] Saguna and Nirguna Sruti

[Venkatesh Murthy]

Namaste

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:
> The Saguna Srutis will not be inferior than Nirguna Srutis
> because the Apaccheda Nyaya does not apply here.
>

Kindly explain what is this Apaccheda Nyaya?


>
> Saguna Srutis say Brahman has many qualities like power and Omniscience
> but Nirguna
> Srutis say Brahman has no qualities.
>
>>  yes, shankara says former is upAsya brahma which is sOpAdhika & later
> is jneya brahma, which has to be realized through shravaNAdi sAdhana.
>

This is the problem. Why Saguna Sruti for Upasana only? Vedanta Desika
thinks it can be for Moksha directly.

> The correct way to understand these Srutis is like this. Saguna Srutis say
> Brahman has qualities.
> The Nirguna Srutis are saying Brahman has no qualities other than Saguna
> Srutis are saying. This is Vihita Vyatirikta Guna Nishedhaha.
>
>>  In that case how to understand shruti vAkya-s like :  asthUla, anaNu,
> agrAhya, apramEya, viditAvidita, he has no body and no senses, neither
> short nor long, it is not either, having no inside nor outside..and
> finally shruti expresses its inability to express braman as 'ida mittam'
> and accepts it is beyond the reach of mind and speech..If the brahman is
> ONLY shruti recommended saguNa minus other dOsha-s and gUna-s why shruti
> has to tell us 'neti neti' is the highest teaching of brahman??
>

The Sruti can teach Neti Neti means Doshas and Gunas not in Saguna
Sruti are not there. Asthula can be Brahman is Sukshma and inside
everything indwelling in everything. Like this other names can be
explained. Idamittham means Brahman cannot be explained with things we
see daily the worldly things. He is God. He has Divine qualities.

> They are not saying Brahman does not have any qualities.
>
>>  but shruti itself saying brahman is nirvikAra, nirvishesha, nirvayava,
> nirupAdhika, it is without taste, it is without smell, no eyes, no ears,
> no life breath, having no opening etc.  Is it not??
>

This means Brahman has no wordly Gunas we see daily in life. It has
Divine Gunas only.

> This is a bouncer ball from fast bowler Vedanta Desika. Any Advaiti
> batsman can face it? How many will simply duck and let it pass above
> head? How many will try to play it and give a catch to short leg? How
> many will use hook shot to hit it for a six?
>
>>  I think advaita does not have any problem in facing this bouncer from
> v.advaitins...advaita is 'technically' well equipped to face these kind of
> bouncers and hit it out of orbit for a big six :-))  Moreover, this
> bouncer is over the head, it is a 'no ball' so, batsman can freely hit
> without any fear of getting out :-))
>

No it is shoulder height bouncer but when batsman ducks low it will go
over his head. The batsman cannot call a no ball. The Umpire is not
saying it is no ball. You can get run out in a no ball.

>>  seriously, it is better to understand advaita perspective on these
> issues before throwing the objection on advaita stand...infact, I was
> doing this same mistake when I was having some prejudices against advaita.
>

I agree with this. But we must hear what others say and what is their
perspective and why is Advaita better.


-- 
Regards

-Venkatesh