[Advaita-l] Fwd: What is 'aprAkRta' ?

[Ramanan Subramanian]

When we claim something, it is best to quote passages from commentaries of
Acharyas themselves, rather than present someone else's final
analysis/judgement on the subject. Will it be possible to provide evidence
of that kind and demonstrate in what way is Ishvara different from absolute
Brahman?

On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Namaste
>
> The method of early Advaita Vedanta Page 223-
> 'From the absolute perspective, Sankara does distinguish between
> Išvara and the absolute Brahman, the sole Being that is pure Awareness.
> If he did not make such a distinction then his teaching would be a kind of
> monistic theism, but it would not be non-dualism (advaita). At the level
> of vyavahara. when the discussion has to do with the cosmos, the
> teaching of the Upanisads is that the Lord existed before the creation of
> the universe and the Lord has become the universe and everything in it (“I
> shall become many, I shall be born”.). Šankara acceps this, but he also
> accepts that there are šruti statements that deny all distinctions (“neti
> neti”, “asthula” etc.), and unlike Ramanuja. who gives a restricted
> meaning to the statements of negation às denying only evil qualities'
>
> Adi Sankara will say Isvaratva of Isvara is illusion. If Madhusudana
> or anyone says opposite he is not agreeing with Sankaracharya.
>
> But there is one objection. If Krishna has Prakruta Sharira like us
> how he could at once enjoy and impregnate 16000 wives and have so many
> sons. How he could lift Govardhana with one finger and how could he
> kill so many demons in Gokula? Only superhuman can do this.
>
> 2011/8/3 V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>:
> > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Ramanan Subramanian <ramanan82 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> My two cents on this issue:
> >>
> >> //
> >> > Jivan Muktas have a body made of
> >> > material elements created due to prarabda karma. Their form is not
> >> eternal
> >> > like the Lord's.
> >> >
> >>
> >> It would be incorrect to say that.  Just like the Ishwara's avatara has
> a
> >> beginning and end on the physical plane and yet the devotee several
> >> centuries later too can pray and be blessed by that avatara, a
> jivanmukta
> >> too can be prayed to and his blessings and guidance got by devotees
>  long
> >> after his physical death.
> >> //
> >>
> >> I would refer to Bhagavatam and Sridhara Swami's commentary on the same.
> It
> >> adds credence to RV's position:
> >
> >
> > I do not see that the quote given by you contradicts my position either.
> > All that I have said is that a jivanmukta's form is still available for a
> > devotee for dhaarana, dhyana, etc.  There are innumerable instances where
> > Sri Chandrashekhara Bharati SwamigaL or Sri Abhinava Vidyateertha
> SwamigaL
> > have appeared in dreams and in the waking also to bless a person, clarify
> > something, or even give a mantropadesha.  Even today several decades
> after
> > their physical departure from this world these instances take place.  I
> had
> > not disputed any position that the quote you have given contains. This
> > comment of Sridhara Swamin applies to the jivanmukta acharya who has shed
> > his body: दृश्यते च आद्यपि (i think this has to be adyaapi) तद्-उपासकानां
> > तथैव तद्रूपसाक्शात्कारः फलप्राप्तिश्चेति भावः.
> >
> > Regards,
> > subrahmanian.v
> >
> >
> >> lokābhirāmāḿ sva-tanuḿ dhāraṇā-dhyāna-mańgalam
> >> yoga-dhāraṇayāgneyyādagdhvā dhāmāviśat svakam (11.31.6)
> >>
> >> Sridharaswami's commentary:
> >>
> >> योगिनामिव स्वच्छन्द-मृत्यु भ्रमं वारयति -- लोकाभिरामं इति । अयम् अर्थः -
> >> योगिनो हि स्वच्छन्द-मृत्यवः, स्वां तनुं आग्नेय्या योग-धारणया दग्ध्वा
> >> लोकान्तरम् प्रविशन्ति । भगवांस्तु न तथा, किन्त्वदग्ध्वैव स्व-तनु-सहित एव
> >> स्वकं धाम वैकुण्ठाख्यं अविशत् । तत्र हेतुः -- लोकाभिरामम् । लोकानां
> >> अभिरामोऽभितो रमणं स्थितिर्यस्यां ताम् । जगदाश्रयत्वेन जगतोऽपि
> >> दाह-प्रसङ्गाद्
> >> इत्यर्थः । किञ्च, धारणाया ध्यानस्य च मन्गलं शोभनम् । विषयं इतरथा
> >> तयोर्निर्विषयत्वं स्यात् । दृश्यते च आद्यपि तद्-उपासकानां तथैव
> >> तद्रूपसाक्शात्कारः फलप्राप्तिश्चेति भावः । इच्छाशरिइराभिप्रायेण वा
> >> यथाश्रुतं
> >> एवास्तु, तत्रापि तु लोकाभिरामां इत्यादिइनां
> विशेषाणामानर्थक्य-प्रसन्गात्,
> >> तदप्यदग्ध्वा तिरोधाय निर्गत इत्येव साम्प्रतम् ॥
> >> Here is a relevant quote from Vishnu Sahasranama Bhashya of Shankara
> >>
> >> "mRutaM maraNam , tadrahitaM vapurasyeti amRutavapuH" ('amRutavapuH' is
> He
> >> Whose body is free from death)
> >>
> >>
> >>
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>
>
> --
> Regards
>
> -Venkatesh
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