[Advaita-l] Apaurusheyatva of Veda

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

namaste,

Vishwamitra was indeed a historical figure. He lived in the 74th century BCE as found out by Dr. Vartak from precessional data. The Rishis are named as they were the persons through whom the revelation of the eternal truths occurred. In other words they discovered the truths and not invente them. They deserve credit for their discovery and not for inventing something eternal..

Regards,

Sunil K. Bhattaharjya



________________________________
From: Raghav Kumar <raghavkumar00 at gmail.com>
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 1:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Apaurusheyatva of Veda

namaste srikanta ji
can you please inform us of the source of this particular question and
answer quoted by you?
in another thread, shyam ji and subrahmanian ji said something related to
this question.

"v)Objection:The "Ruks"of the veda have the names of the "Rishis".The
"Rishis"are also mortals ,therefore the "Ruks"created by them are
non-eternal!
Answer:The "Ruks"are not created by the "Rishis".They are the
visioneries(drastarah).They are not mere names(nama),they are universal
nouns(sarvanama).Vishwamitra is not a historical figure.Vishwamitra means -a
friend of all.Since the universal nouns(sarvanama)have no adjuncts(upadhi)of
time(kala),place(desha) and count(ganna),they are eternal!."

thank you
raghav

On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Srikanta Narayanaswami <
srikanta.narayanaswami at yahoo.com> wrote:

> The reasons given by the Mimamsakas give that the Vedas are separate
> pramana are as follows.Infact,Shankarites also
> follow the reasons of the 'mimamsakas".It is said,"vyavahare Bhatta nayah".
>
> 1)The Dharma is not a physical object(Bhautika vastu).It cannot be known by
> the Indriyas,or reasoning(anumana).Therefore,for the knowing of the dharma
> veda is the only means(sadhana).They use other pramanas to show that the
> they are not useful for knowing dharma,and to condemn(khandana)the arguments
> of others.
> 2)"Shabdha"is word.They are of two kinds.i)paurusheya and
> ii)apaurusheya.The paurusheya is born out of the signs(sanketa)of
> man.But,the words of vedas are not born from the signs of man devised by
> him.The letters devised by man by his sign.They only indicate the
> mundane(laukika) vishaya which can be known by other pramanas.But the words
> of the veda indicate the non-mundane(alaukika)dharmas which cannot be known
> by other pramanas.The laukika letters or words(pada)chnage.They are
> non-eternal.The words or letters of vedas are eternal.They donot change.If
> the laukika sentences are to be true,the person who says must be
> honest(Pramanikah).Therefore they are "sapeksha satya".The sentences of
> vedas are "svatapramana"(they are by themselves truthful).They are not
> created by men.
> 3)Both Kumarila and Prabhakara have answered the questions which have
> argued against the "apaurusheyatva"of vedas with the objections as below:
> i)Objection:The words are created by the effort of man.Therefore,they are
> non-eternal.For them there is birth,therefore they are non-eternal.(this is
> the objection brought by the opponents who say that vedas are not eternal)
> Answer:The veda is not created by any man.It is not said anywhere in the
> veda that it is created by 'such and such a man'It cannot also even be said
> that it is created by the "paramapurusha"God.Because,it is not established
> (asiddha)that God exists.Even for the sake of argument,God exists,it is
> nonsense to say that such a God has created a world which is so full of
> sorrow!To say such a God created this world,is to say he is cruel!.If he is
> omnipotent,he would not created this world which is with defects!Even if he
> is happy(trpta)what is the need to create this world.To say that it is his
> need to satisfy his needs(ishtapurthi),then he has to depend on it.He cannot
> be free in all ways(sarvasvatantra).Even to argue that inorder to distribute
> the "karmaphala"for the 'jivas'God should preside(adhyaksha)is not also
> apt."Karma"is born with the 'phala'embedded in its stomach.The cause for the
> 'enjoyment and sorrow'of the men ,their kama is responsible.There
>  need be no other reason.This act of this world is
> beginningless(anadi).There is birth or death for it.Similarly,the Veda vak
> is also beginningless(anadi).It is eternal without the birth or death.
> ii)Objection:The vedavakya is born at its utterance(uccharana).They
> disolve(laya)when the utterance is stopped.Therefore,it is non-eternal.For
> this argument,the "mimamsakas"answer as below:
> In order that the vakya has to be uttered,it should have
> prior-existed.Therefore,the utterance(uccharana)shows what exists before,and
> doesnot create anew.What is uttered must have existed before it is
> uttered.It exists before utterance and also after utterance.Therefore,it is
> eternal(nitya),the utterance is incidental(prasangika).The utterance is a
> mere physical sound(bhautika sabdha).The talk(word uttered)is not a mere
> physical sound(bhautika sabdha).It is with meaning.That meaning is not
> physical(bhautika).It is 'alaukika"
> iii)Objection:Since different persons,at different places could speak at
> the same time(ekakala) the same sentence(vakya),it is non-eternal.It is not
> all-pervasive(sarvavyapi).
> Answer:Since the "Sun"(surya is seen by different persons at different
> places,can it be said that the Sun is non-eternal,and his light is not
> all-pervasive?
> iv)Objection:The shape of the words change from time to time.Therefore,the
> words are not eternal.
> Answer:The words of the mundane world(laukika)change.But,the words of the
> veda donot change.They are existing
> from generations!
> v)Objection:The "Ruks"of the veda have the names of the "Rishis".The
> "Rishis"are also mortals ,therefore the "Ruks"created by them are
> non-eternal!
> Answer:The "Ruks"are not created by the "Rishis".They are the
> visioneries(drastarah).They are not mere names(nama),they are universal
> nouns(sarvanama).Vishwamitra is not a historical figure.Vishwamitra means -a
> friend of all.Since the universal nouns(sarvanama)have no adjuncts(upadhi)of
> time(kala),place(desha) and count(ganna),they are eternal!.
>
> Prabhakara says that since the mundane(laukika)sentences are not
> selfevident(svatahpramana),they cannot be considered as
> "sabdhapramana".Kumarika connets them with "sabdhapramana",and if their
> creator is a friend(apta)then they also have "svatapramanya". Since,
> Kumarila also accepts that the "vedavakyas"are 'nirupadhika'(without
> adjuncts),there is no difference of views on the evidence of the
> veda(vedapramanya)
> II)The "Spotavada"followed by Bhatruhari and others regard that the whole
> world is an explosion of the word(sabdha)The words are created by "varnas"or
> particles of letters.Inorder to create a word like "Ghata"many particles
> join to create it."Ghata'has "g+a+t+a",form the word"ghata".These particles
> exist only for a moment.Then how is the word become known to us.Bhatruhari
> says that the word and the meaning is created internally by a function
> called ""Sphota".
> There are various levels of utterance(uccharana)and hearing.These levels
> are called:Para,pashyanti,madhyama and vaikhari.The vaikhari is the way of
> utterance or accent.One can hear madhyama as in music.The Yogis can hear
> upto pashyanti.The Para is eternal and to this category the veda belong.It
> can be heard only by "Rishis".Hence,the 'Rishis"are visioneries(drastarah).
> But,Shankara has  criticised the "Sphotavada"in his "Brahmasutra Bhashya".
> N.Srikanta.
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