[Advaita-l] idaM na mama - The scientific evidence?

[Dr. Yadu Moharir]

Namaste:

IMO - Anything that is not re-producible has very little meaning.

Finally, whose duty should that be to confirm or refute whatever they come across?

Should it b eon the shoulders of of the third party or the individual who observes it?

For this reason, Samartha Ramdas in his composition that is advise to his own mind -

tasmaata vicaara karaavaa | deva koNa to voLakhaava ||
apalyaa aapaNa shodha ghyaa vaa | antaryaamii ||

(Liberal overall meaning) - (Therefore) think and search for yourself, within yourself and find out that really matters (devataa).

This is practical application for evaluating observations.  If one asks this the truth?  then only the self query can lead  somewhere?  How ver, if it not questioned they it gets  classified under anddha-shraddhaa. Is that not the reason why India so may moron swami's make their marks on our society, only to be exposed later date !!.

Our inability or desire to question has not helped us in any way.  One of the classic statement regarding this is was expressed by President Regen, "Trust but confirm".

Best Regards,

Dr. Yadu

--- On Sun, 3/20/11, sriram <srirudra at vsnl.com> wrote:

From: sriram <srirudra at vsnl.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] idaM na mama - The scientific evidence?
To: "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela at yahoo.com>, "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Sunday, March 20, 2011, 9:53 AM

dears
I think a patient is happy that he is cured.He does not evaluate what was responsible for his cure.Whatever way the cure is undertaken,faith in the medicine and the doctor are essential from the patient`s side.One may attribute to the manthra another may to the medicine etc.We know how a medicine works but nobody can say how a manthra works.It is like a prayer and it is purely subjective.But there are instances where manthras have worked miracles.But to prove that it is so is a difficult proposition.R.Krishnamoorthy.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Satish Arigela" <satisharigela at yahoo.com>
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] idaM na mama - The scientific evidence?


> A correction in the following foot notes in earlier post:
> 
>>> [** Let us not get pseudo-scientific here and make wild guesses here saying that
>>> 
> the medicinal properties of the materials used in the homa healed the patient
> and that the mantra had nothing to do with it. This is because those with
> greater/higher siddhi in the mantra, do not need to perform homa with those
> specific twigs and herbs but mere japa can cure. The statement of the
> medicinal/Ayurvedic work by name bhelA saMhita can be taken here where it is
> said that in earlier times diseases were cured by employing only mantra-s itself
> 
> without needing herbs and since curing with mantra-s require specific niyama-s
> to be observed by the mAntrika, the non-observation of which might render the
> curing through purely mAntric process, herbs should be used. The textual
> statement apart, closely observing accomplished mantrin-s shows that this indeed
> 
>>> is the case.]
> 
> Correction and more notes: mantra-s require specific niyama-s(rules &
> regulations that come along with it) to be observed by the mAntrika, the
> non-observation of which might render the curing through purely mAntric process
> *ineffective*, herbs should be used.
> 
> 
> ineffective was missing earlier
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Sent: Sat, March 19, 2011 10:17:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] idaM na mama - The scientific evidence?
> 
> Dear Yaduji,
> 
> I am making a generic post, and it is not directed at you but intended for
> people who look for scientific proofs for these things
> 
>> Can you please post the details abut the yaj~na you have mentioned if they are
>> available?
> 
> Sriram of-course will say about this.
> 
> I am well aware of the class of people who want scientific evidence for these
> things. But know that you will never get it- read through.
> 
> The following might look a little abstract or it might look non-coherent or
> sound like non-sense(In which case i probably did a poor job trying to express
> what my familiarity with ritual specialists showed/taught me)
> 
>> Can you comment of reproducibility, specificity. precision of this methodology
>> of this yaj~na?
> 
> Yes it is definitely reproducible **if** you can generate similar conditions and
> 
> that is exactly why you cannot. Let us get into a little "experimental detail"
> here taking this example on how impractical it is to generate similar
> conditions. The intention (and its intensity) of the one who is performing the
> prayoga is very important along with his mantra siddhi.
> In this example, can you generate a famine(so that it creates that compassion in
> 
> the ritualist to agree to perform the yAga)) which would make the
> mAntrika/mantrin make a resolve in exactly the same manner as it happened in the
> 
> mentioned incident.
> 
> Even if it is possible to do that .. can one imagine the consequences of calling
> 
> in the devata-s(nature forces) to make it rain just to test them? Does this even
> 
> make any sense? What will happen if the mantrin knows(or somehow senses - mind
> you most educated mantrins will know if a trick like this is being played) that
> a famine is created to test his ability..the mantrin's intent is immediately
> lost..no?. And Intent is an important ingredient here if you want to look at
> this whole affair like an experiment in Chemistry.
> 
>> Is there any documentation that can validate this?
> 
> First, what does one need this for? To publish in a "peer reviewed scientific
> journal"?
> Second, one might be able to document this but never validate it through
> scientific means - see below why.
> 
> There are incidents where a few uncurable diseases are cured by performing homa
> with specific oblations** with a specific mantra. These are repeatable for sure
> again under similar conditions for sure. The moment we intend to make a
> scientific evaluation of this process, and so for this purpose let us say we
> create an environment to make a double blind test, your intent to evaluate this
> or measure this is already ensuring that(or changing ) the conditions under
> which this is repeatable*.. and this is exactly why I said you will never get
> scientific evidence for these things.. even though they are reproducible n
> number of times.
> 
> Finally, only a highly accomplished mantrin with thorough knowledge of the
> ritual system he employs can tell whether the disease was cured because of 1)
> purely the effect of the mantra 2) The mantra prayoga failed but the medicinal
> herbs used in the rites cured it 3) Or nothing worked but it got cured by a
> stroke of luck. Most mantrins(atleast those who studied under traditional
> teachers) are not un-intellectual superstitious duds, yes they can make this
> distinction... if you interact with them you will discover that.
> 
> 
> [*This is undoubtedly a poor comparison or of limited relevancy but for lack of
> a better example....think of this in terms of Heisenberg's uncertainty
> principle]
> 
> 
> [** Let us not get pseudo-scientific here and make wild guesses here saying that
> 
> the medicinal properties of the materials used in the homa healed the patient
> and that the mantra had nothing to do with it. This is because those with
> greater/higher siddhi in the mantra, do not need to perform homa with those
> specific twigs and herbs but mere japa can cure. The statement of the
> medicinal/Ayurvedic work by name bhelA saMhita can be taken here where it is
> said that in earlier times diseases were cured by employing only mantra-s itself
> 
> without needing herbs and since curing with mantra-s require specific niyama-s
> to be observed by the mAntrika, the non-observation of which might render the
> curing through purely mAntric process, herbs should be used. The textual
> statement apart, closely observing accomplished mantrin-s shows that this indeed
> 
> is the case.]
> 
> Hopefully I made some/little sense?
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
> 
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