[Advaita-l] idaM na mama - The scientific evidence?

[Siva Senani Nori]

The very act of observation changes reality!

That said, I wonder why a thousand years of pressure on, and consequent downfall 
/ degradation of sanatana dharma was not counter-acted by the many abhisArika 
yajnas by so many venerable acharyas. Why were the kavachams not invoked to 
protect the faithful? Why was nothing done to protect Somnath temple or the 
so-many temples which have been desecration by building mosques in / or upon 
them (Hyderabad has at least two fairly modern temples where this has happened: 
the Ganesh temple of Secunderabad and the Venkateswara temple of 'Gudi' (temple) 
Malkapur? Not to question of the pressure and decline two thousand and five 
hundred years ago.

The usual answers to above question is one or another variation of 
a) 'karma-phalam' and consequent decline in faith or SraddhA in people / rulers; 
b) abhyutthAnam of adharma has to happen suficiently before ISvara descends 
again; and c) everything - rise and downfall - happens in cycles.

In the context of the above (history provides sufficient causes for yajnas to be 
invoked), the ingredients sufficient to produce major yajna phala did not exist 
for some time now.

Regards
N. Siva Senani



----- Original Message ----
> From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta 
><advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Sent: Sat, March 19, 2011 10:17:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] idaM na mama - The scientific evidence?
> 
> Dear Yaduji,
> 
> I am making a generic post, and it is not directed at you but intended for 
> people who look for scientific proofs for these things
> 
> >Can you please post the details abut the yaj~na you have mentioned if they are 
>
> >available?
> 
> Sriram of-course will say about this. 
> 
> I am well aware of the class of people who want scientific evidence for these 
> things. But know that you will never get it- read through.
> 
> The following might look a little abstract or it might look non-coherent or 
> sound like non-sense(In which case i probably did a poor job trying to express 

> what my familiarity with ritual specialists showed/taught me)
> 
> >Can you comment of reproducibility, specificity. precision of this methodology 
>
> >of this yaj~na?
> 
> Yes it is definitely reproducible **if** you can generate similar conditions 
>and 
>
> that is exactly why you cannot. Let us get into a little "experimental detail" 

> here taking this example on how impractical it is to generate similar 
> conditions. The intention (and its intensity) of the one who is performing the 

> prayoga is very important along with his mantra siddhi.
> In this example, can you generate a famine(so that it creates that compassion 
>in 
>
> the ritualist to agree to perform the yAga)) which would make the 
> mAntrika/mantrin make a resolve in exactly the same manner as it happened in 
>the 
>
> mentioned incident.
> 
> Even if it is possible to do that .. can one imagine the consequences of 
>calling 
>
> in the devata-s(nature forces) to make it rain just to test them? Does this 
>even 
>
> make any sense? What will happen if the mantrin knows(or somehow senses - mind 

> you most educated mantrins will know if a trick like this is being played) that 
>
> a famine is created to test his ability..the mantrin's intent is immediately 
> lost..no?. And Intent is an important ingredient here if you want to look at 
> this whole affair like an experiment in Chemistry.
> 
> >Is there any documentation that can validate this?
> 
> First, what does one need this for? To publish in a "peer reviewed scientific 
> journal"?
> Second, one might be able to document this but never validate it through 
> scientific means - see below why.
> 
> There are incidents where a few uncurable diseases are cured by performing homa 
>
> with specific oblations** with a specific mantra. These are repeatable for sure 
>
> again under similar conditions for sure. The moment we intend to make a 
> scientific evaluation of this process, and so for this purpose let us say we 
> create an environment to make a double blind test, your intent to evaluate this 
>
> or measure this is already ensuring that(or changing ) the conditions under 
> which this is repeatable*.. and this is exactly why I said you will never get 
> scientific evidence for these things.. even though they are reproducible n 
> number of times.
> 
> Finally, only a highly accomplished mantrin with thorough knowledge of the 
> ritual system he employs can tell whether the disease was cured because of 1) 
> purely the effect of the mantra 2) The mantra prayoga failed but the medicinal 

> herbs used in the rites cured it 3) Or nothing worked but it got cured by a 
> stroke of luck. Most mantrins(atleast those who studied under traditional 
> teachers) are not un-intellectual superstitious duds, yes they can make this 
> distinction... if you interact with them you will discover that.
> 
> 
> [*This is undoubtedly a poor comparison or of limited relevancy but for lack of 
>
> a better example....think of this in terms of Heisenberg's uncertainty 
> principle]
> 
> 
> [** Let us not get pseudo-scientific here and make wild guesses here saying 
>that 
>
> the medicinal properties of the materials used in the homa healed the patient 
> and that the mantra had nothing to do with it. This is because those with 
> greater/higher siddhi in the mantra, do not need to perform homa with those 
> specific twigs and herbs but mere japa can cure. The statement of the 
> medicinal/Ayurvedic work by name bhelA saMhita can be taken here where it is 
> said that in earlier times diseases were cured by employing only mantra-s 
>itself 
>
> without needing herbs and since curing with mantra-s require specific niyama-s 

> to be observed by the mAntrika, the non-observation of which might render the 
> curing through purely mAntric process, herbs should be used. The textual 
> statement apart, closely observing accomplished mantrin-s shows that this 
>indeed 
>
> is the case.]
> 
> Hopefully I made some/little sense?
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> 
>       
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