[Advaita-l] Fw: Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and Advaita?

Sunil Bhattacharjya sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com
Mon Feb 6 16:27:25 CST 2012
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What is the use of wrong information like you gave on Bhakti?  Such deliveries only bring disgrace to one's  teacher by professing wrong theories. BTW,are you preparing dossiers of all the members of the Advaita Forum? You disclose the name of your guru and I shall do mine. Is that OK? Truth is truth and that does not requires any certification. Now please do not try to find some escape route and that will be no use, as what you wrote is in record..



________________________________
 From: "rajaramvenk at gmail.com" <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> 
Cc: "advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and Advaita?
 

Instead of firing randomly like you at even Madhusudana questioning his understanding of advaita, I choose to read and form an opinion, ever remaining open to be corrected by facts. But I am hyper-resistant to ill-informed dogmas. 

1. Have you studied Madhusudana under a traditional scholar?
2. At least have you studied Madhusudana under an academic scholar?

If you don't have either of the two credentials, at least quote him to show that according to him

1) bhakti is not an ultimate goal or
2) lord and His form are different

Or show any of my position is  wrong with  reference to his work. Ill salute you. If you can't do that please remember silence is the best secret knowledge.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
________________________________

From:  Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> 
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 11:53:12 -0800 (PST)
To: rajaramvenk at gmail.com<rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
ReplyTo:  Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> 
Cc: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and Advaita?

Call whatever you like I mainatain that your views on Bhakti in Advaita is not correct, as I have shown that. So do not try to fire from the shoulders of MS as your knowledge of MS itself is not right.



________________________________
 From: "rajaramvenk at gmail.com" <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and Advaita?
 
Madhusudana can consider himself lower than Sankara - even insignificant. But we should not. 

None of your statements about Madhusudana are substantiated by facts and logic. 
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 11:09:02 
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Sunil
 Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>,
    A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
    <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: [Advaita-l] Fw: Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and
    Advaita?



Anyway Adi Sankara passed away centuries before MS. I consider comparison of Advaita scholarship only with that of AS. MS was much much behind AS in Advaita scholarship and this is not to denigrate MS. 



________________________________
From: "rajaramvenk at gmail.com" <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and Advaita?

I have seen that. He is humble and showing us the humility with which we should approach Sankara's works. He authored quite a few serious works in Advaita before writing Gudartha Dipika. So, his
 scholarship and knowledge of Advaita is not under question - definitely not by you and me. His contemporaries compared his knowledge to that of goddess of learning. No one who reads his works will say he is
 deficient in his understanding of Advaita. 
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 2012 09:24:38 
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Sunil Bhattacharjya
 <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>,
    A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
    <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: [Advaita-l] Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and
    Advaita?

Have you read Madhusudana Saraswati's Bhagavad Gitabhashya? It is surprising that you have not seen  till now what he (MS) says about his attempts to understand Adi Sankara's writings.

Sunil
KB



________________________________
From: "rajaramvenk at gmail.com" <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and Advaita?

Have you read Madhusudana? It amuses me that we can say such things without any evidence whatsoever. 
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Sun, 5 Feb 2012 15:19:59 
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>,
    A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
    <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: [Advaita-l] Fw: Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and
   
 Advaita?



Madhusudana Saraswati had difficulty in understanding Adi Sankara in the beginning probably due to his proximity to the Achintya Vedaveda school. However with efforts he could understand Adi Sankara. Now the Advaita does not talk about any other liberation than the Sayyuyya Mukti where there is nothing but total union. In muktis like Sarupya or Salokya mukti there is scope for coexistence with Bhakti but not so in the Sayyuyya mukti.

Sunil KB



________________________________
From: Rajaram
Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and Advaita?





On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 7:24 PM, Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com> wrote:

You said
>
>Quote
>
>
>Nor is there any scope of saying 'Jnana is the eternal condition' in the case
of the Jnani post death.
>Unquote
>How do you reconcile that with "Prajnanam Brahma"?
>
>Regards
>Sunil
KB
>
>
>Rajaram: I should not interfere Sri Subrahmanian answering that. My understanding is that Madhusudana Saraswati
 uses eka jiva vada to address this. According to this, there is only one jiva and liberation happens
 only when this jiva is. This jiva's liberation is in turn dependent on the liberation of all its reflections. So, when "your jiva" gets liberated it is only partial. So, you actually remain one with Ishwara and can appear in this world again at His will. Now, akhandakara vrtti in the case of jnana and bhakti rasa vrtti in the case of bhakti are modifications of the mind. However, they are in their essence non-different from Brahman in the case of jnana and sweet Lord in the case of bhakti. So, neither jnana nor bhakti have the contingency of perishability. 
 
________________________________
> From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
>To: rajaramvenk at gmail.com; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2012 9:49 AM
>
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Did Madhusudana Saraswati Reconcile Bhakti and Advaita?
>
>
>On Sun, Feb 5, 2012 at 3:56 AM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please tell me where Adi Sankara says this. It is commonly attributed to
>> Madhusudana but never found it in
his works. It does summarize the spirit
>> of advaita tradition towards accept of dualism for bhakti. However,
bhakti
>> does not need two entities. Madhusudana says that the highest bhakti is
>> with the conception "I am He". Radha and Krishna
 are one but they exchange
>> the highest prema. It is the same with Siva and
 Vishnu, Nara and Narayana
>> etc.
>>
>> Reply-To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>,
>>
>> Kindly permit me to say that too many words really do not help. Adi
>> Sankaracharya could say the most complicated things in the simplest
>> possible way. He said "Bhaktyarhta kalpitam Dvaita Advaitadapi sundaram".
>> Bhaktri is only when the Bhakta and Bhagavan are two seaparate / different
>> entities, though
there is no denying that Bhakti is a very beautiful thing..
>>
>
>In Advaita the concept of
Bhakti can be taken to mean devotion in several
>levels depending on the aspirant's state of maturity.  The culmination
>comes in 'JnAni tu Atmaiva' where the Lord says in the Bh.Gita : 'the
 Jnani
>is verily My
 Self'.  However we must note that this description of the
>supreme Bhakta (of the four types of bhaktas spoken of in that context)
>holds in the plane of vyavahara, that is even when the Jnani is alive in
>his physical body.  In Advaita, after death of the Jnani, there is no way
>one can talk of Bhakti or a supreme bhakta/bhakti.  A Jnani, while alive
>can very well think of the 'supreme bhakti' as stated above and also enjoy
>the bhakti of the type:  pUjaartham kalpitam Dvaitam advaitaadapi sundaram"
>where one can experience horripilation, shed 
copious tears in ecstasy,
>sing, dance, etc. as Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa did.  Nevertheless
there
>is absolutely no room for either of these two broad types of bhakti (sAdhya
>or sAdhana) after the Jnani has shed the physical body and mind apparatus.
>There is no way 'bhakti' however high it is, continuing
 in the post-death
>state in the case of a Jnani. Nor is there any scope of saying 'Jnana is
>the eternal condition' in the case of the Jnani post death.  For, while
>being alive one can, if practiced adequately, engage oneself in Nirvikalpa
>Samadhi and be in the bliss of the Self or be a subject of
>'vedAnta-vAkyeShu sadA ramantaH' [have excursions into the woods of
>Upanishadic utterances].  After death there is no  way any of these can
>continue or be taken up at the will of the Jnani who is in body/mind case.
>Advaita does not accommodate these 'states'
in the videha-kaivalya context.
>
>Jnana or Bhakti can only be a means to liberation;
jnAnAdeva kaivalyam.  If
>someone says 'bhakti' is the means to kaivalyam, Shankara has explained it
>as: 'jnAnalakShaNayA
 bhaktyA'.
>
>subrahmanian.v
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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