[Advaita-l] Prapatti

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Viswanathji - PraNAms

The point is moksha is defined differently in VA, advaita and dwaita. For VA is moksha is to recognize that I am dependent on Him and He is independent and I am part of Him and He is compete or puurNam. I am located while He is antaryami of all jiivas and jagat providing the support of their existence - dhaaryate jagat - yet he all pervading - although His abode is vaikunTa.- That is the jnaanam required. 

Moksha for a vaishnavate is to go to vaikunta and serve him with devotion along with others who are there - just like my limbs or each cell in my body serve me who pervade this whole body. This is called organic relationship like organs related to the body. Hand service is different form that of leg or stomach etc. Each serve the totality.  That is the moksha where all jiivas enjoy infinite ananda in serving and being with Him. You cannot ask how can a servant be free.The bhakta does not ask that question, if he does he is no more bhakta. As per that doctrin, once you go there there is no more samsaara - or no return to samsaara. yad gatvaana na nivartante taddama paramam mama. 
. 
In the Sri Rajaram's posts there is mixing of mokshas as per VA vs advaita. In the krama mukti there is no vaikunTa or kailasas even if you are a vaishnavate or shaivate. The upaasana maarga takes to satya loka (one may call whatever they want) and either return back or get realized if you gain the required jnaanam there. 

For them also the jnaanam is the path but that jnaanam is defined as the above understanding that I am dependent and He is indepedent and cotroller of all jiivas and jagat. For them He is Brahman one without a second and has internal divisions, swagata bhedas - the divisions being all the jiivas and jagat as his attributes - visheShaNas - hence it is called vishiShTa advaita. One with many internal divisions. He has infinite auspicious qualities - ananta kalyaana guNa aashrayam - says Ramanuja. 

For advaita - brahma is satyam jnaanma and anantam - they are swaruupa lakshaNas not attributes as in VA. In the Brahman there are no swagata bhedas also - no internal divisions.Really no paths too. All paths are for purification of the mind. Jannam and ajnaanam also in the vyavhaara only -if  one thinks he is bound, he needs liberation and the liberation to understand that he was never bound. The untying depends on what he thinks are tying him since there is no real tying. Hence paths karma, upaasana, jnaana etc are for the one who feel limited and bound. The kaama krodha moha lobha mada maastaryas are bonds arising from raaga and dweshas - paths therefore depends on these raaga dveshaas that depend on the proportion of the saatvic, rajasic and tamasic vaasanaas. 

All the discussion on prapatti is trying to bring vaikunta into advaitic fold. Vaishnava vaikunta is moksha for them and that is the final goal not a stop gap goal. There is no advaita vaikunta as stop gap. 

your statements apply as per advaita but not VA. For VA moksha comes only after you drop the body and if and when you deserve. You are led by rayal path - shukla gati to vaikunTa where after taking bath in, I think sarayu river, you get pure satvik body and is taken lovingly by the mother who was waiting for your return and presents you to the father. 

Moksha is right here and Now is advaitic concept, not VA concept, since here and now are only the truths since here and now transcend the spacial and temporal concepts -provided one understands advaita correctly. Hence Jnaanam is the essential path for advaita - not that there are many paths. For that jnaanam - shravana, manana and nidhidhyaasana are the rayal path. Many other paths are for purification of the mind only - the final path is mahaavaakya vicaara. 

The mix ups trying to bring in VA concepts to advaita. 
Sharanaagati in advaita is, yes, surrendering the ego - that surrender occurs only when I have understand there is nothing to surrender. 

Sharanaagati in VA is also surrender to HIM, AND follow the prescribed duties that includes aaradhana and bhagavat and baagavat kaikarya seva. Still Bhakta is different from Narayana - I am part of Him but not HIM. . 

Hope this helps.

Hari Om!
Sadananda



--- On Wed, 2/22/12, Vishy <vishy1962 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Vishy <vishy1962 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Prapatti
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 2:02 AM

Poojya Sadaji,

Thanks for immediate response, but however I feel you didn't answer my question...

Whatever be the path (A, VA, D, or even C or M) the truth should be one, Isn't it?
When you surrender (via bhakthi marga) / drop (thru Jnana)  your ego completely
what else??  Mukti is right Now and Here, right?

than , can I say, rest are all stories made up by mind  as ego is also a mind stuff!!!


pranams
viswanath

  



________________________________
 From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, 22 February 2012 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Prapatti
 
Viswanathji - PraNAms

I was only giving the VishiShTaadvaita position. If you are a VishiShTaadvaitin, you would not have the questions you posed. In the purushashuuktam purusha is identified as the husband of Lakshmi and she stays close to him all the time - day and night. The followers are also called srivaishnavates - sri comes first - When you go to vaikunta you are first taken by the mother who ready to embrace you however dirty you look because it is mother's love. She will wash you up and make you presentable to greet the father- Lord Narayana. Hence it is easier to approach the father via the mother who ignores all the defects out of her love and washes them out to make you perfect. 

Vishvaksena is the army officer or the security head and makes sure you are OK to enter the abode of the Lord - By the by  vaishavates pray Vishvaksena not Ganesha before any religions function when they do aavaahana of the Lord. As per VA the size of jiiva is anupramaana - and the jiivas and the jagat form His virat swaruupa - as shown in the 11th ch. of Gita. 

>From the advaita point any hierarchy is at the metal purification level of the jiivas and all in vyvahaara. The absolute truth is only one - sat chit ananda swaruupa.

Hari Om!
Sadananda  



--- On Wed, 2/22/12, Vishy <vishy1962 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Vishy <vishy1962 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Prapatti
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2012, 12:56 AM
> Poojya Sadanandaji,
> 
> Pranams..
> 
> these concepts  like vaikunata, lord in physical form,
> Sridevi, garuda, adishesha and hierarchy of jiivas
> there.....    Dont they look very imaginary and 
> presumptive??
> 
> I even feel all the forms of Gods form puranas are also came
> in to existence just as parables to convey for some deeper
> inner meaning. Don't they all appear as creations of human
> mind??? 
> 
> 
> 
> should we not aim to realize  mahavakyas  (Tat tvam asi,
> Pragnanam bhrama, AhamBhramasmi... )
> 
> Pardon me....  this is not to hurt others   for my own
> clarity I am asking
> 
> 
> Pranams again
> Viswanath
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>  From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> 
> Sent: Sunday, 19 February 2012 4:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Prapatti
>  
> 
> --- On Sun, 2/19/12, Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > Let vishishtadvaitam be philosophically inaccurate but
> if
> > prappatti is a
> > valid vedic karma that can grant vaikuntha at the end
> of
> > this life itself,
> > why not? It seems logical to first go to Vishnu and
> then
> > realise His
> > nirguna svabhava if He insists. Apart from simplicity,
> this
> > approach also
> > satisfies one's curiosity to know His infinite
> attributes in
> > a state of
> > bliss.
> 
> Shree Rajaram - PraNAms
> 
> you seems to be jumping from one doctrine to the other. In
> VA(vishiShTaadvaita) there is no further going beyond the
> VaikunTa. The tiny jiivas take saatvik bodies after being
> blessed by Sridevi and serve the Lord in VaikunTa -
> respecting a hierarchy of jiivas there. Some of them are
> nitya mukta jiivas like mahalakshmi, garuda, vishvaksena,
> aadhisesha, etc and your have to take your rightful place in
> the hierarchical structure, but you enjoy there infinite
> happiness, even though you are tiny as well as all other
> enjoyments with the Lord, except you do not have the power
> to create. That is the end of moksha pursuit.yadgatvana
> nivartante taddhaama pramam mama - so no return back or
> going up either since it is param dhaama. 
> 
> Krama mukti is different - it is not vaikunta but satya loka
> where Brahmaji is in charge and there for moksha one has to
> gain the knowledge of aham brahmaasmi - via shravana, manana
> and nidhidhyaasana.
> 
> You cannot mix these two, even if your like. 
> 
> By mixing these different doctrines your are coming up with
> a new one - no problem in that if you develop your own
> doctrine but that is not VA is. 
> 
> Prapaatii involves even in VA a clear understanding of
> shesha-seshii bhaava - inability to help myself and
> surrendering at his feet is only resort with clear
> understanding that he is the controller and executor and
> also sanctifyer from all my sins - maam evaye prapadyante
> maayam etam tarantite| is the promise to be relied on with
> full faith. 
> 
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda 
> 
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