[Advaita-l] mleccha-s not eligible to take Hinduism??
vadhula at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 15 17:52:06 CDT 2012
Responding to several postings:
1.Women do not have veda adhikara and from a dharmic standpoint cannot undergo upanayana,wear yagnopaveeta, or chant Gayatri: Jaldhar Vyas has mentioned this with shastric references on some postings through out the years on this list. Also read Hindu Dharma by Kanchi Paramacharya at www.kamakoti.org for details. Also please see - http://vedvikas.blogspot.com/2010/10/whether-women-can-have-upanayanam-as.html
2.With regards to creation:
a.There are those outside of chaturvarna ; created originally as such or descendant from the original 4. There is mention of Tribals, creation of mlechchas by Bhagawan Vishnu in Bhavishya Puraana, and also many jaathis claim creation from Lord Shiva, etc that are Shudras or outside of chaturvarna (source People of India anthropological Series).
b.Yes, there is mention of anuloma progeny where a if father (higher varna) and mother are 1 varna apart; that the progeny are same varna as father. I have heard of 7 generation rule if a Brahmin male marries a Shudra female and they have a girl and she marries a Brahmin male and like wise for 6 more times; that a son born 7 generations later will be a Brahmin.
c.It is also possible that there are Shudra jaathis that are descendants of Dvijas who lapsed in Upanayana, perhaps ostracized and married non-Dvijas; so they are now actually Shudras.
d.There are intermediary jaathis that are outside or don't fit into chaturvarna. e.g.: Chitragupta Kayasthas of UP/North India are non-Dvijas, There are some Ambalawsi castes in Kerala that are Dvijas, and Vaidyas of Bengal are Dvijas.
e.Some Dvija jaathis became non-Dvijas for a particular reason as per Puraanas. I read in a Wkipedia article (I know, take with a grain of salt) that Nayars of Kerala were Kshatriyas of Naga species that at advent of Kali Yuga ? transformed themselves into non-Dvija Humans. I think to escape wrath of Parashurama Avatar.
f.Niyoga, which is banned in Kali Yuga, is where a son-less widow can obtain progeny from a Brahmin rishi (or others ?) through sexual/asexual means; but progeny belongs to the varna of the deceased Husband; but gotra is the same as biological father; ( or same varna of mother if unmarried, in the case of Vidura). That is why pandu and Dhritarashtra are Kshatriyas and Vidura is a Shudra. This is also why Bhagawan Ramachandra is of Koundinya Gotra (from Vashishtha) as mentioned during Sita Kalyana puja in Rama Navami. His ancestor Kalmashapaada could not produce a child and hence his Guru Vashishtha Rishi produced one via niyoga.
g.R Venkataramani has mentioned varna by birth (I guess not heredity per say) can be determined by intrinsic guna. But who can judge this ?Like I mentioned those that are called Mlechchas may or may not have been descendants of Dvijas; so there is no dharmic means to make them as such. My limited understanding of Madhvachraya's Tattvavada Sampradya is that souls in their intrinsic form are of 3 basic categories: Those that eligible for moksha (Sattvik), those that are in eternal samsara (Rajasic) and those destined for andha-tamas (Tamasic). This is even sub-divided. Also a soul (or some of the suddivisions) has a svabhavika varna. A soul belonging to one varna based punya/paapam can take birth in a different varna. Only Aparoxa Gyaanis can know one's svabhavika varna. (It is not based on occupation, external qualities, etc) But Madhvas say with regards to varna dharma in shastras; it is the birth varna as per heredity that needs to be followed.
h.Based on above, the white European male has no adhikara for upanayana, etc.
i.It is hard to believe given that the exceptional figures in Puraanas who changed varna based on Rishis, God, Devtas, etc; that contemporary an-adhikaris are exceptional to be exceptions. On top of it their Gurus don't follow shastras in that regard: Arya Samaj, Gayatri Pariwar,ISCKON, neo-Advaita/Shaiva/Vaishnava sects. IMHO, I suppose Chinmaya Mission and RK Mission may do the same.
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