[Advaita-l] Cotard Syndrome and Brahman Realisation

[Rajaram Venkataramani]

There are some slokas such as bhaja govindam which talk about an ardent
sadhaka acting as a mad man. But I did not say that a jnani is mentally ill
because I guess understand the spirit of these verses and have at least
some respect for our traditions. In fact I argue below that tattva jnana is
like understanding the nature of reality akin to understanding that the
body is made of carbon, water etc. I just think that certain practices such
as nidhidhyasana *may* bring about neurological changes. If we see a
picture of food, there will be saliva in the mouth. If we keep telling
ourselves that this is just a picture and not real food, we may not
salivate after repeated conditioning. Like that, if we repeatedly tell
ourselves that the world is mithya we should expect that we will not react
with attraction or aversion as a normal person would. It is logical to
expect that a similar reaction will happen if we damage the portions of the
brain responsible for causing response to stimuli (as in the case of
diseases).

But I think a jnani is able to reverse the conditioning instantaneously.
So, the question was whether his brain undergoes a change or not?

 On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 4:42 PM, sriram <srirudra at vsnl.com> wrote:

> Dear Sri Rajaram Venkatraman
> I have read about the Cotard Syndrome and Capgras syndrome in the book
> -The Tell Tale Brain by Sri V.S.Ramachandran.He speaks about it-Cotard - as
> either as a result of acute mental depression or associated
> withTLE-temporal lobe epilepsi.Your telling that these syndrome effects may
> also be as a result of nidhidhyasana and restraining the senses  and making
> them looking inward-prathyahara-in my opinion may not be correct.It may
> tantamount to calling an ardent sadhaka  as mentally sick.R.Krishnamoorthy.
> R.Krishnamoorthy.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rajaram Venkataramani" <
> rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
> To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l at lists.advaita-**
> vedanta.org <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:20 PM
>
> Subject: [Advaita-l] Cotard Syndrome and Brahman Realisation
>
>
>  There are two types of supernatural powers or siddhis reported by astikas
>> with respect to their acharyas. The first is the mental type where the
>> acharya is able to read minds, predict future etc. The second is where he
>> is able to manifest a physical object including his own body. I do not
>> know
>> if we will be able to understand these anecdotes logically with a deeper
>> understanding of the world.  From a vedanta point of view, these siddhis
>> are the result of certain types of karma and not due to atmajnana.
>> Ultimately, these siddhis are of no value to a Vedantin because they have
>> temporary results. The Vedantin's focus is on the realisation "I am
>> Brahman". Here, through application of pramanas (pratyaksha, anumana,
>> upamana and especially sabda), one develops a firm conviction that the
>> perceived world (Jiva, Jagat and Ishwara triad) is a sort of myth (mithya)
>> and the underlying reality that is completely independent of all objects
>> of
>> perception, the Self alone is real. I am that. The later afflictions of
>> the
>> body or the mind (e.g. alzheimer's) or residual ignorance that has to be
>> only exhausted through experience of prarabda does not interfere with
>> brahman realisation. There is no rebirth for the jnani. (Thanks Sri
>> Subrahmanian for your clarifications from a traditional point of view and
>> hope I got it exactly as you intended to convey).
>>
>> I was recently having a conversation with someone, who argued that brahman
>> realisation is most probably a neurological phenomenon. As you know,
>> modern
>> science does not accept that mind is independent of the brain as our
>> sastras teach. They have painstakingly mapped different functions of the
>> mind (logic, creativity etc.) to parts of the brain. Neuroscientists have
>> started to explain out of body experience as a neurological function.
>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/**releases/2007/08/070823141057.**htm<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070823141057.htm>.
>> Eminent
>> neuroscientists such as Dr. V.S. Ramachandiran are talking about the areas
>> of brain responsible for the sense of self and qualia.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=jTWmTJALe1w<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWmTJALe1w>Basically, they try to explain
>> why we perceive red when the respective neurons fires and more importantly
>> why we see ourselves seeing ourselves seeing red! It gets interesting when
>> neuroscientists study people who believe "This is not my father (mother,
>> dog or house)", "This is not me",  "I am dead" or "I am immortal".
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=dqBGzkz1oDU<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqBGzkz1oDU>
>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.**com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.**
>> 1995.tb09764.x/abstract<http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1600-0447.1995.tb09764.x/abstract>
>>
>>
>> I argued that tattva jnana about who am I is akin to us analysing that our
>> bodies are made of water, carbon etc. This understanding of underlying
>> reality about our body does not bring about noticeable change in our
>> brains. In the same way, by understanding that I am pure consciousness
>> through analysis based on veda pramana does not change our brains. Having
>> said that, it is possible that nidhidhyasana will bring about the changes
>> in the brain. Continuous suppression of sensory stimulation will lead
>> removing emotional association with visual and auditory inputs as in the
>> case of capgras syndrome mentioned about. And profound meditation that I
>> am
>> the Self and not the body, which appears to be real but is unreal may lead
>> to the kind of convictions that arise in the case cotard's syndrome. The
>> main difference will be that these changes will be accompanied not by
>> sorrow as in the case of these syndromes but an experience of bliss
>> because
>> of the repeated tuning of the mind to experience bliss from inside rather
>> than outside.
>>
>> I would like to know the views of scholars here and our acharyas' views on
>> the effect of atmajnana on the body and mind.
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