[Advaita-l] Apoureshyatva - Faith or Logic?

[rajaramvenk at gmail.com]

I did not quite see how the position on apaureshyatva is answered in adhyasa bhashya. The pramana to conclude that there is adhyasa between atma and anatma due to avidya is veda only. 

It seems apaureshyatva of vedas is based on faith in the statement of the rishis and traditional teachers. Their logic to prove it is based on the assumption of an eternal connection words and class of object and their existence even in the source. By this logic, everything is apaureshya only and the special place to veda vakyams is a boundary given by the tradition.   Apaureshyatva cannot be justified if we do not accept these two  assumptions and say that language and objects evolved. 

I am happy to be corrected.  
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:51:31 
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Apoureshyatva - Faith or Logic?

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com> wrote:

> Coming to the 'kartum...' this has been said by Shankara with respect to
> both laukikam and vaidikam karma.  That is, both these types of karmas are
> 'capable' of being done or not done or done in a different way. 'kartum
> akartum anyathA vA kartum shakyam laukikam vaidikam cha karma.' (BSB 4th
> sutra, if I am not wrong).
>
> praNAms
> Hare Krishna
>
> I think shankara  talks about 'dhyAna' (purusha tantra)  here not on
> vaidika karma in 4th sUtra.  Because for the vaidika karma shAstra is the
> ONLY pramANa.  Hence, akartuM anyathA vA kartuM invites 'pApa/dOsha' and
> more importantly shAstra viruddha.
>
> Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>

Dear Bhaskar ji,

Let me gently remind you, a veritable master of the Acharya's Bhashya
vAkyams, that it is a case of laukika and vaidika karma.  In the
janmAdyasya yataH (second sutra bashyam and not the fourth as I had
doubtfully mentioned erlier) Acharya goes on to give examples as:  ashvena
gacchati, padbhyAm gacchati, na vA gacchati [one transports himself by
horseback, or walks or does not undertake the journey at all] for laukika
karma.  For vaidika karma the examples given in the BSB are: udite juhoti,
anudite juhoti, atirAtre ShoDashinam grRnhAti, nAtirAtre ShoDashinam
grRnhAti, etc.  [here the shastra itself gives two or more options of which
one can choose to do one or the other.  Of course, opting not to perform
the karma is also open to the individual.  Shankara is bringing out the
difference between the ever-established vastu, bhUtavastu, Brahman and
karma which has to be engaged in in order to bring about a result.  That is
the context.

Hence there will be no 'doSha' from choosing one or the other options
provided by the shAstra.  Of course, if one refrains from either of the
options, within a main karma, there will be karma lopa.  This kind of
dosha/lopa is there for any act/abstinence, even laukika.  For example, in
a medical emergency I have to rush to a hospital.  I have the options of
taking an autorickshaw or call the neighbor to take me in his/my car.  Or I
can choose not to go at all.  The consequences of each of these is there,
favorable or otherwise.

As an aside, I wish to say that in these discussions, we are exchanging
opinions/views/understandings and certainly not blows.  When such exchanges
happen, we go back to the shastra, bhashyam, to look in more detail.  I am
struck by the benefit such an exchange gives, especially in the current
discussion.  I had noted a few days ago, either here or elsewhere, that all
questions/solutions have their fundamental base in the adhyAsa BhAShya.
Now, in a previous post I had made a comparison, not contrast, between man
and animal.  Even this is beautifully explained by the AB:
pashvAdibhishcha avisheShAt.  The psychology of man is not very different
from that of an animal.  The Acharya is making this remark, will
illustration of such behaviour, both in an animal and man, in the context
of the pramANa-prameya vyavahAra.  And the fundamental seeking to free from
duhkha and seek sukha.  All purusharthas, even the seeking of moksha
purushartha, is based on this fundamental seeking.  Hence He says all
pramana prameya vyavahara, laukika, vaidika and EVEN moksha, is in the
realm of avidyA.



Regards
subrahmanian.v

>
>
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