[Advaita-l] Apoureshyatva - Faith or Logic?

[Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:41 PM, V Subrahmanian
<v.subrahmanian at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:11 AM, Balasubramanian Ramakrishnan <
> rama.balasubramanian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> >
>> > अत आगमवशेनागमानुसारितर्कवशेन च चेतनं ब्रह्म *जगतः कारणं
>> प्रकृतिश्चेति*स्थितम्
>> > । । ११  । ।
>> >
>>
>> Not really. The question being addressed here is whether pradhAna can be
>> counted as an entity **independent** of brahman for the creation of the
>> universe. The sAnkhyA says that the creation is by modification of
>> pradhAna, which is independent of brahman. Sankaras point is that if a
>> creation is posited, then the ultimate cause is brahman. But if you read
>> the bhAShya, he also clearly states that if the sAnkhyA wants to posit the
>> creation of a world by modification of a supposed pradhAna, *which is
>> subservient to brahman*, then he has no problem with such a theory. So, as
>> I said this has nothing to with creation passages, nor contradictory of
>> evolution theories.
>>
>
> I think you are referring to a different sutra's bhashya above.  What I
> have spoken about is regarding the sutra   तर्काप्रतिष्ठानादपि....2.1.11
> where the entire bhashya is about the topic of tarka.  That it is chiefly
> to address the pradhAnavAdin, sAnkhya is not in doubt:
>
> नच प्रधानवादी तर्कविदामुत्तम इति सर्वैस्तार्किकैः परिगृहीतो येन तदीयं मतं
> सम्यग्ज्ञानमिति प्रतिपद्येमहि |
>
> Could you pl. show me the exact bhashya sentences, *from the BSB
> 2.1.11*that represent what you say above?
>

I am on travel and don't have the books with me. It's however
irrelevant whether it's under this sUtra or anywhere else. For the
simple reason - shankara could have said "Your model of creation
violates so and so sentences in shruti about creation". Instead he
says "Make pradhAna subservient to brahman and I have no problem with
your theory of creation by pradhAna". This clearly shows that these
theories of creation are orthogonal to what Shankara thinks is
important and as long as they don't violate the essential things it's
irrelevant to him where the theory of creation sprung from - shruti
texts themselves or from sAnkhyA texts.

Rama