[Advaita-l] Apoureshyatva - Faith or Logic?

[Sunil Bhattacharjya]

For discussing matters like Apaurusheyatva of Veda etc.and who said what on this topic since the ancient times, one has take dates (even if not the exact dates) seriously. These subjects cannot be discussed in a serious forum by just throwing some absurd historicities and expecting others to disprove  those absurd ideas wrong. If you thought the dates are not important and you are not sure about the dates then you should not have given the date, in the first place. Having given the dates now you cannot run away by saying that the dates are not to be seriously taken. The onus is on you to first prove the dates given by you and if anyone contests your proofs then that person will have to come out with his proofs.

Secondly regarding the equivalent word in English I was doing loud thinking as to whether there is any better word than the word "uninvented' and sought the opinions of other scholars if they have any better idea. Luckily one suggestion came that "Unauthored" may be a better word. May be the scholars who look at it constructively will try to suggest more ideas on it and it may also so happen that someone may suggest that instead of a single word, a combination of two or three words may be a better equivalent of the term "Apaurusheyatva". One is clear that you have no suggestion to give from your side and you have only your efforts to destroy other's efforts.

Sincerely,
Sunil KB



________________________________
 From: "rajaramvenk at gmail.com" <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Apoureshyatva - Faith or Logic?
 
I said thought to have as I don't take dating too seriously. It is not my imagination but that of researchers, which you can look up if you care to. Instead of just passing some unsubstantiated remark it is better to speak with facts if you disagree. Or if you live in Calcutta, you can help the group by posting a thesis which was submitted to Calcutta University by one Sri Vacaspati in 1967 on "Self Validating knowledge in Mimamsa".

By the way, your suggestion uninvented shows gross misunderstanding of apaureshyatvam. It could mean discovered like Columbus discovered America but what is intended to be conveyed unauthored is that Veda Sabda is anadi, nitya and apaureshya. 
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:14:40 
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya at yahoo.com>,
    A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
    <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Apoureshyatva - Faith or Logic?

Quote
Given that Jaimini is thought to have lived around 2 to 5 BCE and Kanada around 2
 - 4 BCE,

Unquote


What an astounding imagination?

Sunil KB


________________________________
From: Rajaram Venkataramani <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Apoureshyatva - Faith or Logic?

On Friday, June 29, 2012, Omkar Deshpande wrote:

> Dear Sri Rajaram,
>
> <<<He does give
> arguments against paureshytvam because that was held by certain schools
> including nyaya who thought Vedas were produced by god and others who
> thought it was the opinion of rishis.>>>
>
> Who were the philosophers that
 claimed the Vedas were the opinion of
> Rishis? Are there references to such Purvapakshins in the Mimamsaka
> works? Were any of them within the Vedic fold?
>
> I know that the Buddhist Pali canon refers to the Rishis as composers
> of the Vedas:
> http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.095x.than.html
>
> But I'm curious to know if there were also Vedic philosophers with
> such an opinion.
>
> RV: The short answer is yes. Before explaining it, I would like to point
out that the opinion that Vedas were apaureshya did not originate at the
time of Mimamsakas. They were only defending an opinion that was ancient
even 2000 - 2500 years ago from those who attacked it. There is no literary
evidence to show that this opinion started at some point in history. When
we defend Veda Apaureshyatvam, we are defending an opinion that is very
ancient. Shruti, protected by our traditions amidst physical and
intellectual war, is more ancient than any archaelogical remain or written
text. They thus forms part of human cultural heritage that should be of
foremost concern to all civilised human beings. Those of us who have done
our bit for Veda samrakshanam should do more and involve all across nations
and
 beliefs to do so.

If you see Jaimini Mimamsa Sutras (1.1.27 - 28), he postulates opponent
view that Vedas are modern creations and refer to transitory things.
Jaimini goes on to show how these arguments are baseless. Given that
Jaimini is thought to have lived around 2 to 5 BCE and Kanada around 2 - 4
BCE, it is possible that he was referring to either Kanada or pre-Kanada
Vaiseshikas. It is well known that Kanada considered only pratyaksha and
anumana as pramana including sabda in to these. Both Bhatta and Prabhakara
schools attack Vaiseshika and Nyaya positions on pramanas in addition to
Buddhist and Jaina. In Prakaranapanchika, (paureshyam pravartate Veda
vaidhina:), some of the vaidhikas are attacked for their incorrect position
that the relationship between sabda and artha is paureshya. The opponent
view is also Buddhist. In tantravartika, Kumarila Bhatta says Buddhist
copied Upanishadic concepts Vaidhika
 (though he disagrees with their
interpretation and conclusion). It is well known that Buddhists had no
issues with adopting many Vedic concepts (e.g. Varnashrama).
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