[Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

[rajaramvenk at gmail.com]

That state is what is called suddha bhakti or prema beyond bhava bhakti. There is no non-deity in that state of oneness. 
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-----Original Message-----
From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 00:17:55 
To: rajaramvenk at gmail.com<rajaramvenk at gmail.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

What is with this fixation of love? I just don't get it. It can get a little annoying when people do not let go of their narrow impressions and rub them to everything without any discrimination.


To answer your question. No. Nothing like "loving a deity" or "hating a non-deity" is involved. There is pure awareness of the deity beyond any bhAva. Beyond love and hate.

Only those attain unity with the deity who can immerse themselves completely in the mantra to the point that they forget what they are, At this stage the questions of love hate etc do not arise.



________________________________
 From: "rajaramvenk at gmail.com" <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'
 
Does an upsakaka who has ultimately attained oneness with the deity, love the deity? Does anyone not love oneself? So, even the limited definition of bhakti as prema applies to upasana.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 21:24:05 
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela at yahoo.com>,
    A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
    <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

shrIH


>I would have appreciated your lengthy response if it had contained 
even a bit of Vedanta as taught by Shankara.  It is this we are 
discussing and bringing in >everything unrelated to Vedanta is simply a 
waste of time of the members of this List.

Kindly wake up... we are discussing upAsana and bhakti in that thread. not vedAnta. Please see the very last comments.


Anymore peddling of those muddled, confused & mixed up views... I 
will be even more direct in my criticism of the same.

That is --exactly-- why I said, people who are still living in the cocoon of "my tradition has everything and I need not look elsewhere" find this 
very hard to understand.

It is perfectly alright to be 
ignorant about something. I personally doubt if I can know even half of 
the good things that you are an expert at, given your knowledge & thoroughness on some 
topics. But unfortunately there is more you need to consider when it 
comes to this particular topic and your views are extremely narrow, 
flatly opposed to reality and are not anywhere close to being correct.

>My view is Upasana seeks worldly objectives -and mainly by 
>artharthies.

This is completely wrong. An upAsaka may or not may not seek worldly objectives,


>Upasana slowly will elevate the upasaka to be  a Bhakthiman in 
>which stage he will come to realise that these worldly pleasures and assets 
>are meaningless .

One of the best jokes in modern times I guess. A proper upAsaka unites with his deity. he becomes his deity.[not after going to some loka after 
death. Unites with his deity when alive..if upAsana is done properly]. This is something that people experience here and now..not some concept or theory.


To make you understand, your statement of upAsaka become bhakta eventually, is like saying, a vedAntin-s study of vedAnta texts will slowly elevate him to be a buddhist.

Your statement is just not erroneous, it is as meaningless as the above statement.

>Taking refuge in the deity/self only will lead to 
>liberation meaning no more births/samsara.

This refuge stuff will certainly give you some psychological satisfaction 
initially..It does not give you anything else other than that.
But even here, if one persists[repeated chanting and focus on a name of a 
deity like for example viShNu!, vAsudeva!,shiva!, rudra!] over a period 
of time, the yogic elements that such kind of a persistence 
automatically involves/or brings-about, will lead one to something 
good[sadgati] and in some very very rare cases could lead to union with 
the deity.


>So upasana is also a step in the 
>Bhakthi marg.

Yeah.....Just like study of vedAnta is a step towards realizing the high truths of mAdhyamika buddhism? :-)

One could start as a bhakta and if things work out good, they may graduate 
to the mode of upAsana..and the different grades of upAsana further down the lane.
Don't bring in vedAnta and say the next step of upAsana is study and vichAra 
of vedAnta. That view though not valid IMO, can be held by a vedAntin 
simply because he is a vedAntin. vedAnta can be seen as a great path 
which accommodates **some limited elements of upAsana**.. but they are 
not related in any way.
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