[Advaita-l] kratu without IshvarapraNidhAna

[Ramakrishna Upadrasta]

namaste,

One aspect in the recent upAsana/bhakti threads was the effort build
an upAsana theory independent of IshvarapraNidhAna. The reasoning
adopted seemed rather strange as well: since traditions X, Y, Z which
have nothing in common adopt the same techniques yielding similar
results, all the way having dissimilar epistemologies, the method's
efficacy and results are independent of Ishvara!

The latter, namely, the concept of a kratu giving its own phala
(transferring apUrva), without accepting an Ishvara who is a
karma-phala-daata is fundamentally flawed. This nirIshvara-vaada has
been criticized and demolished not just by advaita-vedantins, but also
other  dvaitin schools like pAshupata and vaiShNava schools as well.

As an example of a support for the above statement, we can see what
Shri puShpadaMtAchArya says in his shloka#20.


क्रतौ सुप्ते जाग्रत् त्वमसि फलयोगे क्रतुमतां
क्व कर्म प्रध्वस्तं फलति पुरुषाराधनमृते ।
अतस्त्वां सम्प्रेक्ष्य क्रतुषु फलदान-प्रतिभुवं
श्रुतौ श्रद्धां बध्वा दृढपरिकरः कर्मसु जनः ॥ २०॥


Reading the next shloka #21 also would show that it is up to the
yajvins/mantrins to take care that their makha-s do not become like
abhichaara, and get destroyed like daxa-yaGYa!


क्रियादक्षो दक्षः क्रतुपतिरधीशस्तनुभृतां
ऋषीणामार्त्विज्यं शरणद सदस्याः सुर-गणाः ।
क्रतुभ्रंशस्त्वत्तः क्रतुफल-विधान-व्यसनिनः
ध्रुवं कर्तुं श्रद्धा विधुरमभिचाराय हि मखाः ॥ २१॥


You are also welcome to read the commentary of jagannAtha-chakravarty
and the translation of Arthur Avalon at the following location:
http://www-roc.inria.fr/~upadrast/Advaita/Shiva_Mahimna_Arthur_Avalon.pdf


==
One subtle difference to be observed here is that the shraddha on
acceptance of Ishvara as karma-phala-daata does not have any
dependence/implication on the apauruSheyatva of the veda itself!
Vedantins can happily live with both of the above.

But, I would like to know if there is a connection between "mantrins'
concept of potency of mantras" and apauruSheyatva of veda. At a very
superficial level of understanding, it seems that the connection is
tenuous because there are tantric-mantras which perhaps are
independent of veda mantras, and which do have observable potency as
well.

namaste
Ramakrishna