[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka

Vidyasankar Sundaresan svidyasankar at hotmail.com
Tue Nov 6 19:13:49 CST 2012

> > I am really puzzled about what you see in verse 4.9.29. That verse is
> > about dhruva
> > feeling remorseful that he did NOT seek eternal mukti from the mukti-pati,
> > but hadinstead directed his tapas towards perishable ends. The bhAgavatam
> > is NOT telling us that dhruva spurned moksha so as to do "loving devotional
> > service" to bhagavAn.
> > Please read this verse in its full context as well.
> >
> RV: Mukti pateh tells us that the Lord is the controller of Mukti (even for
> the smart ones who meditate on who am I). Please read the next verse

Has anybody said differently? Why do you imply that advaitins reject the above?
> (4.9.30) Dhruva asserts that he had attained the sat padam in six
> months that sanakadhis attained in many life times. So, the Lord gave him
> atma jnanam though he never asked him for it. Dhruva also asserts that his
> state is superior to that of the Devas (4.9.32), which is possible only for
> a jnani. This is also inferred from what the Lord Himself tells him in the
> preceding verses (e.g. 4.9.25) that Dhruva, like sanyasis, will attain the
> state of Vishnu after this life. He expresses his advaita jnanam in 4.9.33
> where he says that the sadness in his heart with respect to enemy is due to
> maya only because there is no second person. Most importantly, Maitreya
> tells us in 4.9.36 that people like Dhruva who worship the dust at the feet
> of Mukunda (the giver of liberation) are satisfied with what comes from
> bhagavanugraham and other his "loving devotional service" dont ask for any
> thing else.

You have to read the verses 4.9.27-29 again and very carefully. Why is dhruva
not satisfied (na atiprItaH) even after all the boons granted to him? Vidura asks
as much - why did dhruva feel himself to have not achieved much (kathaM svam
AtmAnam asiddhArtham amanyata?) maitreya answers, because he did not 
ask for mukti (na icchat mukti-pater muktim). Why did he not ask for mukti? Was
it because he decided to reject moksha in order to continue to do devotional
service to bhagavAn? No. He did not ask for moksha simply because the motive
for his tapas was the fact that his step-mother spoke to him (mAtus sapatnyA
vAg-bANair hRdi viddhas ... tasmAt tapam upeyivAn). 
As it stands, the premise that Dhruva did not ask for moksha because he rejected
it in favor of bhakti is a completely false one. In fact, what the bhAgavata says here
is that he regretted that he had NOT asked for moksha and that he had asked for
temporary boons (gatvA yace yad antavat). He further compares himself to the poor
man who asks for a handful of broken grain (phalIkArAn iva adhanaH), because he
foolishly (mauDhyAt) asked for worldly name and fame (mAno me bhikshitaH), when
the Lord was ready to offer him complete liberation (svArAjyam).
Please note that  "devotional service" is absolutely not the correct translation for
svArAjya. All I can say again is to read the verses on the Dhruva story carefully and
understand what exactly is the message being conveyed with respect to moksha here. 
Is it devaluing moksha in relation to bhakti or is it raising moksha to the position of 
the highest good that dhruva regrets that he didn't pursue when he had the chance.

> Regarding Sri Ramesh's response on the impossibility of bhakti in abheda
> state, please note that bhakti in abheda state is what Sridhara,
> Madhusudana and the author of Sivanandalahari say - not me. So, if you
> think bhakti iss not possible in abheda state, please ask them. Gopalaham

No, it is you who keeps talking about how bhakti is impossible for a jnAnI and that
this is why devotees do not desire moksha, preferring instead to stay embodied and
perform loving devotional service.
For advaitins, the question does not arise at all, because there is just no basis for
saying that bhagavad bhakti is one thing and jnAna is another thing altogether for
one who has realized abheda. There are no two things there.

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