[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka

Rajaram Venkataramani rajaramvenk at gmail.com
Fri Nov 16 09:09:16 CST 2012

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar at braincells.com>wrote:

> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012, Rajaram Venkataramani wrote:
> In SBh 1.5.12, Kadalangudi Sastrigal translates that atma jnanam does not
>> look well when devoid of devotion to the supreme lord. In SBh 3.29.13, it
>> is clearly said that a pure devotee does not want any kind of liberation
>> including ekatvam. A similar view is expressed in SBh 4.9.29.
>> In SBh
>> 2.3.10, three kinds of devotes are talked about. One who is free from all
>> desires, one who has all desires and one who has desire for liberation.
>> So,
>> it is not that there are only devotees with desires in the material world
>> and devotees who want to get out of it.There are akama bhaktas who perform
>> devotion only because of attraction to the lord. We may not have that kind
>> of devotion but cannot say that it does not exist.
> Desire for liberation is a bit of an oxymoron isn't it when it is desire
> which is the cause of bondage in the first place.  But everyone has to say
> atleast "I want jnana."  So Advaita Vedanta acknowledges that but says that
> as the sadhaka advances even that desire will burn away and he will just
> come to mukti as it happens.
> It's the same with the bhakta.  Savitri did not "relish" death she was
> just following Satyavan and that is where it led her.  A bhakta is in
> constant communion with his Lord.  That will lead to moksha.  There is no
> desire involved.

RV: I had a few offline discussions with Sri Subrahmanian and agreed to go
through Swami Paramarthananda's lectures. As of now, my position or
understanding is as follows. A person on the nivrtti marga understands the
swarupa of Ishwara, Jagat and Jiva through sravana etc. He comes to the
firm conclusion that only brahman exists and gives up all desires just we
will not have desire for water in a mirage. But due to prarabda karma and
purva karma vasana, his body and mind will continue to act until he attains
videha mukti. If he wants he can stop such activities using yoga processes
such as samyama. In the seven stages of jnana bhumi outlined by
Madhusudana, he can go to the highest stage where no one can wake him up
though his body is alive. Though some have done it, most jnanis work for
lokasamgraha. Some adhikara purushas even continue after the death of the
current body and continue in a new body. But this will also come to an end
after the mission is complete such as ruling as an Indra or writing a
bhashyam. The question is whether there can be a jnani who will continue
forever in the same or new bodies. I think the answer is yes and is the
case with some types of jnanis who are intense bhagavad bhaktas like Arjuna
who appeared as Nara earlier.

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