[Advaita-l] Supreme Brahman - the Ruler in Advaita?

[Rajaram Venkataramani]

Every description (or non-description) of the absolute is from a vyavahara
perspective only - avyavahaaryam, agraahyam, advaitam, prapancopashamam,
satyam, jnanam, anantam, brahma, ishwara, rama, krishna, narasimha, siva,
ganga, meru, himalaya, vrksha etc. whatever be the conception - full of
sorrow or aikantika sukham. We cannot say that certain conceptions of
Brahman made with our mind are from paramarthika perspective and others are
from a vyavaharika perspective. Even a jivan mukta cannot have any other
perspective than vyavaharika. He may experiensh (if that is the word for
non-dual experience where the subject-object duality is sublated through
knowledge) an objectless consciousness due to akhandakara vrtti of his
mind. But that is also an experiensh of paramartika from vyavahara realm
only as it pertains to his mind. If you are saying that we are on the same
page with respect to that point.

This experiensh of bliss in the case of akhandavrtti, where one becomes
that bliss itself, Madhusudana says, is a reflection of Brahman on the
mind. As Padmapada and Vidyaranya say, a reflection is non-different from
the reflected, though the medium may be local or temporal, a logic that
Madhusudana adopts. In the case of Ishwara, the reflection is on Maya, a
medium that is neither local nor temporal. The reflection of such an
Ishwara on the melted mind of the bhakta is the manovrtti called bhakti and
is non-different from Ishwara and hence Brahman. Therefore, bhakti is
absolute according to Madhsuduana. The dualistic conceptions of Ishwara as
Rama, Krishna, Siva etc. differentiate one from the other and hence limited
but not the non-dualistic conception as in Gopalaham, Sivoham etc. Without
bhakti there is no question of steadfastness in karma or jnana, asserts
Madhusudana (e.g. introduction, 18.66 etc.)

You may say that Ishwara by definition is mayopadhika, though maya
is trans-spacio-temporal limitations and anirvachaniya, where as Brahman is
nirupadhika without any limitation - spacial or ordinary - of maya. And
Brahman is the absolute not mayopadhika brahman, which is a reflection that
exists only as long as one has not transcendend maya. This is where I am
trying to point out that Nirupadhika Brahman by definition is Ishwara as
Gaudapada Karika talks about with respect to Turiya. Sankara defines
nirupadhika brahman as Narayana or Ishanashila in BhG 15. He defines
akshara as Inner Controller in BhG 8. Madhusudana talks about Vasudeva and
Krishna in the same context!  We cannot reject the works of acharyas on
their definition and still claim to adhere to their framework.The same
nirupadhika brahman appears with a body of pure consciousness or of maya
though in reality there is no body but only a transformation of the mind,
explains Madhusudana in BhG 4. Advaita, therefore, is absolute non-dual
theism not monism.


On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:47 AM, kuntimaddi sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Shree Rajaram - PraNAms
>
> nirupaadika
> brahman or turiiyam in mantra 7 of Mandukya is the same as
> satyam-jnaanam-anantam Braham - even the words- satyam-jnaanam-anantam is
> only
> from the reference of vyaavahaarika only - as Mandukya matra 7 says
> -avyavahaaryam, agraahyam, advaitam, prapancopashamam etc. all descriptions
> which cannot be described - for helping a saadhak to shift the mind to
> grasp
> the essence using viveka - and is only called fourth - chaturtam manyante
> - in
> relation to the three states. Even so called parabrahman - is only from the
> point of vyaavahaarika only.
> You
> statement - that starts with - this parabrahma appears ... Any appearance
> is
> from vyavahaara point only and it involves upaadika not nirupaadika. Hence
> it
> is same as Iswara with maayaa as upaadhi. There is only vyaavahaarika and
> paaramaarthika - the latter being absolutely real and sat. While the
> former,
> the vyaavahaarika involves as I said - Brahman + upaadhi - either at jiiva
> level or Iswara level - anupravesha statement of the scriptures involves as
> though entering into the upaadhi. avataara is brahman -as though-
> descending
> taking an appropriate upaadhi to solve a local problem. Hence Krishna was
> located and as son of Devaki.
> Personally I do not see any
> problem in accounting the paaramaarthika and vyaavahaarika and if one
> include
> the individual mental projections - praatibhaasika.
> In essence anything that has
> property has finiteness associated with it. Nirguna brahman is pure
> paaramaarthika only.
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
>
>
> >________________________________
> > From: "rajaramvenk at gmail.com" <rajaramvenk at gmail.com>
> >
> >
> >However, in this thread we are talking about nirupadhika brahman that
> Sankara and Madhusudana talk about in BhG 15 and BhG 8. Just as Gaudapada
> calls turiya as Ishwara, Sankara calls Him Ishanashila or Narayanana and
> Madhusudana calls it Vasusdeva. This is a state of un-differentiated
> knowledge or the state of Vishnu. This parabrahman appears as Krishna and
> without becoming anatma. He takes the qualities of anatma when He appears
> as jagat but not when He appears as Krishna. Any form is prakrta but His
> form is apraktram, paramayarupam and pure consciousness. This nitya suddha
> buddha mukta Krishna, the son of Devaki and Yasoda, is the garland of the
> gopis who are jnanis.  Janaka attained jnana because of being a jijnasa
> whereas gopis started as jnanis by being totally selfless and spontaneous
> in their love for Krishna.  Some contemporary advaita scholars, jnanis
> though they may be, don't recognise the position of gopis as did
> Madhusudana. They think
>  gopis went to Brahmaloka as do normal sadhakas. There is a huge
> difference between worshipping Krishna as the Self and as non-Self. This
> para-bhakti, which is advayajnanam, is non-different from Him, who is all
> bliss, says Madhusudana.
> >Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> >
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