[Advaita-l] Supreme Brahman - the Ruler in Advaita?

[rajaramvenk at gmail.com]

Hari is the Self of all. However, we don't see Him as such but as God or not at all as we are deluded by maya. However, gopis see Him as the Self as they are jnanis. We see His qualities as material (prakrtam) but gopis see it as aprakrtam. As atmaramas, they relish in these qualities which has an un-obstructed  reflection of pure consciousness and hence bliss itself. They don't relish material qualities which are perishable but relish in His transcendental qualities, which are eternal. In material names and forms, there is an obstruction of bliss due to rajas and tamas. 
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Ranga Rathnam <sranga1955 at hotmail.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 12:38:45 
To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Supreme Brahman - the Ruler in Advaita?

Hari, presumably is the Self of everybody, not just gopis.
Anybody who achieves Self-Realization achieves Hari-Realization ipso facto.
So it cannot be a multi-stage process for anybody.

Attraction to transcendental qualities of Hari, by its own momentum may give realization
of Hari who has transcended all qualities, unless you refuse that Hari cannot transcend all
qualities.

> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 09:23:38 +0100
> From: rajaramvenk at gmail.com
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Supreme Brahman - the Ruler in Advaita?
> 
> As to whether gopis attained Atmasakshatkara or Paramatmasakshatkara, we
> have to first understand that there can be no jnani who is not a bhakta.
> Lord Krishna calls jnani as one of the types of bhaktas in BhG 7.
> Vidyaranya defines jnani as a Hari Bhakta. Madhusudana says in his very
> introduction to the gita and also 18.66 that bhakti is essential for karma
> and jnana. In his introduction to BhG, he says that an atmarama is
> attracted to the transcendental qualities of Hari, who is their very Self.
> He classifies the gopis as the highest types of jnanis. He admits Janaka, a
> jijnanusu, attains jnana but gopis dont even aspire for jnana but are
> jnanis by definition due to their selfless love for Krishna, who is their
> necklace!  As Hari is their very Self, for gopis atmasakshatkaram and
> paramatmasaksharam are non-different. These two realisations will be
> different only for one who in the first two stages of devotion "I am His"
> or "He is Mine" but not for gopis who are in the state of "I am He".
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 3:36 AM, Ranga Rathnam <sranga1955 at hotmail.com>wrote:
> 
> > Did gopis attain Atmasakshatkara or Paramatmasakshatkara?
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Rangarathnam
> >
> > .>>>... in this thread we are talking about nirupadhika brahman that
> > Sankara and Madhusudana talk about in BhG 15 and BhG 8. Just as Gaudapada
> > calls turiya as Ishwara, Sankara calls Him Ishanashila or Narayanana and
> > Madhusudana calls it Vasusdeva. This is a state of un-differentiated
> > knowledge or the state of Vishnu. This parabrahman appears as Krishna and
> > without becoming anatma. He takes the qualities of anatma when He appears
> > as jagat but not when He appears as Krishna. Any form is prakrta but His
> > form is apraktram, paramayarupam and pure consciousness. This nitya suddha
> > buddha mukta Krishna, the son of Devaki and Yasoda, is the garland of the
> > gopis who are jnanis.  Janaka attained jnana because of being a jijnasa
> > whereas gopis started as jnanis by being totally selfless and spontaneous
> > in their love for Krishna.  Some contemporary advaita scholars, jnanis
> > though they may be, don't recognise the position of gopis as did
> > Madhusudana. They think gopis went to Brahmaloka as do normal sadhakas.
> > There is a huge difference between worshipping Krishna as the Self and as
> > non-Self. This para-bhakti, which is advayajnanam, is non-different from
> > Him, who is all bliss, says Madhusudana.
> > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
> >
> >
> >
> >
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