[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka

[V Subrahmanian]

Just adding another dimension to the reply given already:

Also, if the vaikuntha/kailasa is held to be different from the created
loka-s, the above logic would apply here as well.  The created loka-s, if
real, would limit the vaikuntha.  For the loka-s are not vaikuntha and vice
versa.  If it is said that vaikuntha is infinite and encompasses the
created worlds too, then it would amount to vishnu being subject to svagata
bheda which will go against the shruti describing Brahman as 'prajnAna
ghana, saindhava ghanavat, ' etc.  This shruti does not permit any object
that is not brahman 'in' brahman.  It will give rise to a situation of
brahman having several holes in itself.  If it is further urged that the
loka-s and the beings there as well as those in vaikuntha (mukta jivas) are
all completely pervaded by Brahman and therefore there is no desha
pariccheda, then it is required to be answered as to how is this possible.
Supposing there is a metal pot of 15 liters capacity, which is one mm
thick. I immerse it in a pond and the water goes inside the pot and covers
the pot outside too.  Still the water has not occupied the one mm thick
wall of the pot.  Such will be the situation of the brahman pervading the
lokas/beings if these are held absolutely different from brahman.

If it is urged that all the beings are chitsvarUpa in vaikuntha and brahman
too is so, then the difference is only aupachArika, by courtesy, like
having several gold ornaments which notionally inhere in gold.  The names
and forms of the ornaments are only in name, and not real.  It will be like
gold, brahman,  itself assuming several names and forms and playing out a
mAyik drama.    In any case, the absolute advaitic position can never be
escaped by non-advaitic schools.

regards
vs

On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 7:45 AM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:35 PM, R Krishnamoorthy <srirudra at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Dear
>> I took time to read the replies and your counters to them.I find logically
>> speaking any system of philosophy can not convince the aspirant of what is
>> Kailasa or what is Vaikuntha.There are descriptions of these primordial
>> places and even we have stories of great ones reaching them and abiding in
>> them as Nithya suries or as Shiva ganas.We can have our own versions as
>> these are beyond our small intellect.If you want to negate them it is up
>> to
>> you.Sri Adi Sankara has composed many sthothras of praise on Sri
>> Shiva,Shri
>> Vishnu,Shri Ambal ,Shri Ganesa,,Shri Subramanya,Shri Nrusima just to
>> mention the prominent shothras.The phalasruthis and descriptions do
>> contain
>> references of Kailasa and Vaikuntha.He is the greatest proponent of
>> Advaitha.What does this show?There is Kailasam and there is Vaikuntham.One
>> has to discover it through oneself.No one can show it to you.Strive ,Seek
>> and find it.
>
>
>
>
> Accepting the existence of such loka-s might happen due to emotional
> attachments.  But when put to the test of reason we cannot simply accept
> the existence of 'both' these loka-s, for both of them will limit each
> other and neither will be infinite; both will be finite.  A finite entity
> cannot be eternal.
>
> Apart from this, if the loka consists of duality, then also the 'pathi' of
> the loka will be finite alone; the other residents of that loka will limit
> him.  For, the pathi is different and distinct from the others there
> leading to vastu pariccheda.  A table and a chair, being different from
> each other, limit each other.  Such a pathi cannot be infinite.  There will
> be desha pariccheda too for the pathi since he cannot be occupying all the
> places the residents occupy simultaneously.  If it is said: the residents
> and other bhogya padarthas there are 'in' the infinite pathi alone, the
> question arises: in what way?  Is it like various objects remaining on a
> table or in a basket?  If such is the case, samyoga, then it is possible
> only with respect to objects made of parts, sAvayava dravya.  The bottom of
> a book will rest on the top of the table.  And such a vastu is bound to
> perish when the parts disintegrate.  To avoid this the only way is to admit
> that the 'others' exist 'in' the pathi in an AdhyAsika sambandha, like
> snake superimposed on the rope.  Finally it will amount to an unreal
> existence of the others in the pathi, whether we admit of a form to him or
> not. The very purpose of proposing a loka will be defeated.
>
>
>
>> R.Krishnamoorthy.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:11 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Hare Krishna. Does advaita admit of an eternal loka - vaikuntha or
>> kailasa
>> > - within vyavahara? If so, have any advaita acharya talked about it?
>> Please
>> > give me references.
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
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