[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka

[Rajaram Venkataramani]

Hare Krishna. I am glad that you admit that maya sabalitha brahman is
eternal and not merged in to parabrahman on pralaya.  There are others on
this forum who dont accept that Ishwara is eternal even in this sense. They
state that He gets merged in to parabrahman on pralaya.

We call Him differently. I call Him Vasudeva, Narayana, Ishwara, Vishnu
etc. or you call It Non-Person. It is a semantic difference. We both agree
that this Ishwara, maya sabalitha brahman, beyond all particular names and
forms is the container of names and forms and eternal. This is who / what
is called the Vaikuntha by Bhagavatam and Sridhara.  Where does Appayya
Dikshitar say that this Vaikuntha or Vishnu is non-eternal? If Ishwara is a
concept, so are all vyavahara satyams.

As to the significance of all these vyavahara realities for a vedantins, a
mukta becomes this Ishwara. As you must know, Appayya Dikshitar takes up
the question of whether a mukta becomes Parabrahman or this Ishwara and
asserts that he becomes Ishwara.


On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 12:33 PM, V Subrahmanian
<v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
> rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If it is urged that all the beings are chitsvarUpa in vaikuntha and
> > brahman
> > > too is so, then the difference is only aupachArika, by courtesy, like
> > > having several gold ornaments which notionally inhere in gold.  The
> names
> > > and forms of the ornaments are only in name, and not real.  It will be
> > like
> > > gold, brahman,  itself assuming several names and forms and playing
> out a
> > > mAyik drama.
> >
> > RV: let it be unreal and will come to that later but do you agree that
> the
> > lord / vaikuntha are eternal? they exist as long as vyavahara does.
> >
>
> What is the point in answering the above question?  'Eternal' and fixing a
> limit to it are contradictory.
>
> In the Taittiriya up. bhAShyam for the mantra 'asad vA idam agra AsIt'
> [2.7.1] Shankara comments:
>
> //By 'asat' avyAkRtam (undifferentiated) brahman which is distinct from the
> differentiated distinct names and forms is meant.'  This is not absolutely
> non-existence, since there can be no effect issuing forth from
> non-existence.  By the word 'idam' the distinctly experiencable world of
> names and forms is meant.  Prior to the creation of the distinctly
> available world, brahman alone, denoted by the word 'asat' existed.//
>
> From this it is known that during pralaya avasthA the qualified brahman,
> the seed of the yet-to-manifest creation, existed.  This is Ishwara.  We do
> not specify a loka, abode, for this Ishwara, for there is no need for such
> a specification.  All the potential creation is 'in' this Ishwara (which is
> itself a mAyA-tinged sentient entity).  If it is insisted that an abode  be
> specified, we can say: it is the nirguNa brahman that is the substratum on
> which this Ishwara containing the creation in potential form before
> creation, and in manifest form after creation, rests.  It should be
> remembered that Ishwara is not a person with a definite unchanging form.
> It is a concept.
>
> As I have said before, Appayya dikshitar has said that the very same brahma
> loka (which too goes into pralaya) appears as shiva loka for shiva upasakas
> and vishnu loka for vishnu upasakas.   Still it is not 'eternal'.  It is
> within creation.
>
> vs
>
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