[Advaita-l] Eternal Loka
swami.sarvabhutananda at gmail.com
Sat Aug 10 22:55:37 CDT 2013
In the pursuit of VEDANTA study:
The above 4 are essential!
Otherwise insted of samvAdA it will be jalpA oir vithanDA!
wishes nd love.
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 9:52 PM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hare Krishna. I am glad that you admit that maya sabalitha brahman is
> eternal and not merged in to parabrahman on pralaya. There are others on
> this forum who dont accept that Ishwara is eternal even in this sense. They
> state that He gets merged in to parabrahman on pralaya.
> We call Him differently. I call Him Vasudeva, Narayana, Ishwara, Vishnu
> etc. or you call It Non-Person. It is a semantic difference. We both agree
> that this Ishwara, maya sabalitha brahman, beyond all particular names and
> forms is the container of names and forms and eternal. This is who / what
> is called the Vaikuntha by Bhagavatam and Sridhara. Where does Appayya
> Dikshitar say that this Vaikuntha or Vishnu is non-eternal? If Ishwara is a
> concept, so are all vyavahara satyams.
> As to the significance of all these vyavahara realities for a vedantins, a
> mukta becomes this Ishwara. As you must know, Appayya Dikshitar takes up
> the question of whether a mukta becomes Parabrahman or this Ishwara and
> asserts that he becomes Ishwara.
> On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 12:33 PM, V Subrahmanian
> <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Rajaram Venkataramani <
> > rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If it is urged that all the beings are chitsvarUpa in vaikuntha and
> > > brahman
> > > > too is so, then the difference is only aupachArika, by courtesy, like
> > > > having several gold ornaments which notionally inhere in gold. The
> > names
> > > > and forms of the ornaments are only in name, and not real. It will
> > > like
> > > > gold, brahman, itself assuming several names and forms and playing
> > out a
> > > > mAyik drama.
> > >
> > > RV: let it be unreal and will come to that later but do you agree that
> > the
> > > lord / vaikuntha are eternal? they exist as long as vyavahara does.
> > >
> > What is the point in answering the above question? 'Eternal' and fixing
> > limit to it are contradictory.
> > In the Taittiriya up. bhAShyam for the mantra 'asad vA idam agra AsIt'
> > [2.7.1] Shankara comments:
> > //By 'asat' avyAkRtam (undifferentiated) brahman which is distinct from
> > differentiated distinct names and forms is meant.' This is not
> > non-existence, since there can be no effect issuing forth from
> > non-existence. By the word 'idam' the distinctly experiencable world of
> > names and forms is meant. Prior to the creation of the distinctly
> > available world, brahman alone, denoted by the word 'asat' existed.//
> > From this it is known that during pralaya avasthA the qualified brahman,
> > the seed of the yet-to-manifest creation, existed. This is Ishwara. We
> > not specify a loka, abode, for this Ishwara, for there is no need for
> > a specification. All the potential creation is 'in' this Ishwara (which
> > itself a mAyA-tinged sentient entity). If it is insisted that an abode
> > specified, we can say: it is the nirguNa brahman that is the substratum
> > which this Ishwara containing the creation in potential form before
> > creation, and in manifest form after creation, rests. It should be
> > remembered that Ishwara is not a person with a definite unchanging form.
> > It is a concept.
> > As I have said before, Appayya dikshitar has said that the very same
> > loka (which too goes into pralaya) appears as shiva loka for shiva
> > and vishnu loka for vishnu upasakas. Still it is not 'eternal'. It is
> > within creation.
> > vs
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