[Advaita-l] Fw: dreamless sleep

H S Chandramouli hschandramouli at gmail.com
Thu Dec 5 00:29:08 CST 2013


Dear Sri Sadanandaji,

The last sentence which seeks the answer < is that true Acharya > is
definitely incorrect. The concept of Sakshi itself is different. While the
three states waking,dream and sleep ( meaning dreamless state ) are
mutually exclusive ( meaning when in one state the other two are absent )
we always have the experience that the person experiencing the three states
is one and the same. Such an understanding is not possible unless the same
is conveyed to us by a separate entity which is witness to all the three
states( and hence a conscious entity )  and is not itself a part of any of
the states. This entity is hence called Sakshi. This illumines the
Antahkarana always ( in the sense the knowledge of any state is always
conveyed to the Antahkarana ) which resides therein. However in Sleep state
the Antahkarana is in solidified form ( pragnanaghana ) in the sense all
vrittis are individually indistinguishable and hence it appears as though
there is no knowledge as such in this state. However since it is in close
association with Sakshi ( without any diversions vikshepa ) the Antahkarana
experiences Ananda ( swarupa of Sakshi ) which is what is recalled in the
waking state. In dream state the five Indriyas are inactive and hence no
new acquisition of knowledge is possible. However the Sakshi illumines the
vrittijnana already stored in the Antahkarana which then appears as a
creation ( dream ) . Waking state is clear and hence i am not elaborating
on the same. Thus the role of the Sakshi is always to illumine ( enabling
us to experience ) . There is nothing like any reflection coming back to
Sakshi etc.

I do hope I have understood the question correctly and answered properly.


On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 8:17 AM, kuntimaddi sadananda <
kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com> wrote:

> PraNams to all.
> I am forwarding a question posed by a sincere seeker in private mail,
> since the discussion may be relevant to many. I am not posting my answer to
> him to the list. Those who want to address the issue raised by the seeker
> are welcome. If the answer differs from mine and is relevant, I will
> definitely forward that to him.
> Hari Om!
> Sadananda
> > Acharya - Pranams
> >
> > BMI complex, time, space and universe cease to exist in
> > dreamless sleep state (total blankness) but the witnessing
> > consciousness still exists in dreamless sleep state. The
> > statement of proof of the existence of sakshi is how can I
> > know there was total blankness in dreamless sleep state if
> > there is no consciousness to know it. (I can only ask this
> > question in the waking state). I also can only say that I
> > was slept happily in the waking state The knowledge of
> > no-apprehension is also a knowledge.
> >
> > but sakshi is not the knower, sakhi only passively shining
> > whether or not there is reflecting medium. Mind is the
> > knower. Mind didn't exist in dreamless sleep state. So
> > how can the above  statement be a valid proof of the
> > existence of sakshi in dreamless sleep
> >  state since the knower itself didn't exist?
> >
> > I can only infer the blankness in dreamless sleep state base
> > on the absence of memory during the deep sleep, I only can
> > recall the memory at the moment before deep sleep (because
> > no memory in deep sleep state) and compare it to the
> > experience of waking up in the morning. There is no memory
> > of me have a dream also and I wake up happily. So in waking
> > state I infer I experience the deep sleep . (even the
> > ahamkara 'I', can not experience deep sleep because
> > ahamkara also ceased to exist).
> >
> > then Is it possible the non apprehension knowledge only
> > caused by the absence of memory during the deep sleep? (I
> > can only say I have no memory also in waking state only)
> >
> > but I also think: even in waking state, the sakshi can not
> > be seen or prove  because if I can see Sakshi or prove
> > it then who is witnessing the ahamkara that trying to prove
> > the existence of the sakshi?
> >
> > so not only in the deep
> >  sleep state but also in waking state I can not know the
> > sakshi. and deep sleep state is the state of ignorance, when
> > I try to know the ignorance, the ignorance always run away,
> > it is like trying to see the darkness using
> > flashlight.  So it is true that I don't need to
> > prove the existence of sakshi in dreamless sleep state
> > because only total ignorance is in that state, self
> > knowledge also didn't exist in the dreamless state
> > (because any knowledge including Atmavidya only exist in the
> > mind). and it is enough for me to know the sakshi is the
> > witness of the ignorance and knowledge.(this knowledge also
> > only exist in waking state in the mind, it is the ahamkara
> > who say this, sakshi can not think or know anything but
> > sakshi is the only one that make any knowledge or ignorance
> > can be known, no mind there will be no knowledge and of
> > course no self realization).
> >
> > and pure consciousness without any reflecting medium
> > isn't that same with total
> >  blankness? because consciousness can not say. "I am
> > the pure consciousness, I am the self existent entity even
> > without reflecting medium". And consciousness also can
> > not see himself without reflecting medium. I also have heard
> > the saying: "I don't need mirror to know that I am
> > exist". I still know my self exist even I don't
> > have mirror because I still have ahamkara or mind (that acts
> > as reflecting medium) that is illumined by the sakshi and
> > the reflection is received by the sakshi again. without
> > ahamkara or mind, sakshi is just shining without any
> > reflection comeback to Sakhi and then there is no self
> > knowledge. (reflection of consciousness that is received by
> > witnessing consciousness is the mandatory for knowledge to
> > be exist)  Is that true Acharya?
> >
> >
> > thank you very much Acharya for helping me. my prostrations
> > to Acharya
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