[Advaita-l] Real vs. Unreal

[H S Chandramouli]

H S CHANDRAMOULI

Dear all,

Perhaps i can add the following as the general proposition for clarity,

< dvaitham a-vastu  drishyatvat  swapnasrishtivat >

Regards


On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:07 PM, V Subrahmanian
<v.subrahmanian at gmail.com>wrote:

> Very nicely put, Chandamouli.  This explanation is available in the BG
> bhashya 2.16.
>
> vs
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 12:03 PM, H S Chandramouli <
> hschandramouli at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > H S CHANDRAMOULI
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > Let me add my 2 cents views on the subject of Mithya which i understand
> fro
> > VMjis mail has been discussed elaborately earlier.
> >
> > Mithya has no doubt many definitions like nonindependant, nonpermanent
> etc.
> > But i think for understanding its implications it is useful to understand
> > it as a mixture of real ( that is   vastu ) and unreal ( that is
>  a-vastu )
> > . When we see a pot we say the "pot is".When we see a cloth we say "
> cloth
> > is ". Similarly " creation is ". As we are used to a particular way of
> > looking at and understanding our experiences, the normal meaning we give
> to
> > these statements is that pot,cloth, creation are the vastus and 'is"
> > denotes their existence. But according to advaitha doctrine, "is" is the
> > vastu and pot/cloth/creation are only visheshanas. Meaning thereby that
> > these are not vastus but only "adjectives" ( or makeup/appearence ) for
> the
> > vastu "is". The vastu "is" is Brahman/atma. The difference between a
> jnani
> > and ajnani is thus the following. Both nodoubt experience the creation.
> For
> > a jnani creation is not the vastu while it is so for ajnanis. Also when
> we
> > say creation usual understanding is everything external to us. But here
> we
> > should understand it as everything other than "is" and that includes the
> > jiva  also. I have found this to be very useful in understanding vedanta.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Namaste Mitrani
> > > Previously we have discussed Satya and Mithya here. You can see in the
> > > archives. There is nothing like Mithya in Paramartha. Everything is
> Satya
> > > only. Even if you see a stone lying on the road it is the same Brahman
> > like
> > > Brahman in you and me.  Because Advaitis have stressed Mithyatva very
> > much
> > > it has become a negative philosophy. Everybody is saying Advaitis are
> > > Mayavadis. They are obsessed with Maya. They are thinking of Maya
> always
> > > instead of Brahman.
> > >
> > > vidyAvinayasampanne brAhmaNe gavi hastini .
> > > shuni chaiva shvapAke cha paNDitAH samadarshinaH .. 5\-18.
> > >
> > > The Pandita is seeing same Brahman in Brahmin, cow, elephant, dog,
> > > dogeating Chandala and in eveyrthing. Jagat is Satya because it has
> > Brahman
> > > basis. Brahman is supporting the world. Now it is a positive
> philosophy.
> > > The same Upanishads are saying Neti Neti and also Sarvam Khalu Idam
> > Brahma
> > > and Tvam Anandamayas Tvam Brahma Mayaha. We have to take the positive
> > > aspect. Instead of meditating on Maya we should meditate on Brahman.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:33 PM, Nithin Sridhar <
> > sridhar.nithin at gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Oh Okay. :) In his speech, he clarifies on the definition of Satya
> and
> > > > Mithya.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Nitin: Please check this Anugraha Bhashanam by Sringeri
> > Shankaracharya
> > > > > Bharati Thirta Swamiji- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJGnpVIQ1-k
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately, I cannot understand south Indian language. I am
> > > Gujarati.
> > > >  I
> > > > > will have to rely on translation of the above link and other
> > discources
> > > > > like 'Understanding advaita and mithyA'
> > > > >
> > > > > Difference for Jivan mukta adn Videha mukta is perceived by us, not
> > by
> > > a
> > > > > Jivan mukta or videha mukta. No change happens in his state of
> > > > > consciousness, it does not matter if body remains or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > Aum
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > OM
> > > > >
> > > > > Sujal Upadhyay
> > > > >
> > > > > "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else
> is
> > > > > nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> > > > >
> > > > > He who has faith has all
> > > > > He who lacks faith, lacks all
> > > > > It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> > > > > FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Nithin Sridhar <
> > > > sridhar.nithin at gmail.com
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Sujal ji,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with the last part that, for a Jivanmukta, the body or
> any
> > > > other
> > > > > > non-self does not exist as non-self, but he perceives them as
> Self
> > > > alone.
> > > > > > His perception of duality is superseded by the realization of
> > Oneness
> > > > > > attained due to Jnana.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I feel, the only difference between Jivanmukta and Videhamukta is
> > > that,
> > > > > the
> > > > > > former maintains an apparent existence apart from Brahman for
> sake
> > of
> > > > > world
> > > > > > and the latter renounces even such an apparent existence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:08 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <
> sujal.u at gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Nitin bhai,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think unreal does not mean mithyA. Or say what is the english
> > > word
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > asatya?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Satya = Real / truth
> > > > > > > asatya = ?
> > > > > > > mithyA (in between) = ? - that which is transient experience.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My English is poor
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also what is the difference between anitya and mithyA?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > According to my understanding, anitya means that which is
> > non-self
> > > > and
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > perishable. So if I destroy a cloth, it's irreversible end
> > product
> > > is
> > > > > > ash,
> > > > > > > which is visible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While in snake-rope analogy, when snake disappears, it does not
> > > leave
> > > > > any
> > > > > > > trace, like it's curved path, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Adi Shankara in Tatva Bodh defines both anitya and mithya
> > > separately.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Jnana Drishti, the world is negated and not destroyed. that
> is
> > > > > > nirvikalp
> > > > > > > samadhi. Then there is another word, satvam khalu-idam brahma.
> > > 'Idam'
> > > > > :)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sri Ramana Maharshi says, when you look at shadow, then sun is
> > not
> > > > > > visible,
> > > > > > > when you look at sun, you cannot see shadow. Similarly, when
> you
> > > > > clearly
> > > > > > > experience this world, you do not experience Brahman. when you
> > > > clearly
> > > > > > > experience Brahman which world is not visible.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Body is Jnani is Jnana itself (consciousness). It is not
> physical
> > > > body,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > the substratum of entire universe is his body (i.e. Brahman).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Aum
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > OM
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sujal Upadhyay
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> > > --
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > -Venkatesh
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