[Advaita-l] Bondage and Liberation - Logical or Illogical?

Ranga Rathnam sranga1955 at hotmail.com
Sun Jan 27 17:17:34 CST 2013

The link (mandukya bashya) doesn't seem to be working!


> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 17:12:59 +0530
> From: v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
> Subject: [Advaita-l] Bondage and Liberation - Logical or Illogical?
> The following is sourced from
> http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/SUMADHWASEVA/message/23121
> // See the beauty of how Mahan Sri Vijayeendra Tirtha (Paramaguru of Sri
> Raghavendra Tirtha)
> explains the illogic of Adwaitham through a simple analogy or Upamaanam.
> Mahan Sri Vijayeendra Tirthar jestingly asks:* "Will a mother willingly and
> knowingly give poison to her child and, then also give an anti-dote for the
> poison? The answer is NO. Similarly, would anyone knowingly enter/
> jump into dirt and then clean oneselves up from dirt? The answer is NO. So,
> why would the Lord create Jivatmas and knowingly put Avidya, Agyanam into
> them that then makes them think that they are different from the Paramatma
> which supposedly they are not, as alluded by the Adwaitins? Then why would
> the Lord also give them ways and means as prescribed by Adwaitins (i.e.,
> study of scriptures, atma vichaara etc. etc.) by sending a messenger who
> propounds Adwaita, as an anti-dote to overcome this Avidya? Similarly, why
> would the Jivaatmas enter into dirt knowingly if they were originally
> unsullied that makes them deluded and, then later study scriptures to
> realise that they are the same as Brahman???Just does not make any logical
> sense, isn't it?  Same with Adwaitham - just doesn't make any logical
> sense.  People hear these Adwaitham from some Swami ---nanda (there are so
> many of these Adwaitham propounding Swami ---nanda) or read their books and,
> then repeat what they have said like a parrot or copy and paste from their
> sites without thinking.*  //
> A Response to the purported criticism by Sri Vijayeendra Tirtha
> [ Sri Vijayeendra Tirtha (1539 - 1595 AD) a revered Acharya of the Dvaita
> school is said to have been a contemporary of Sri Appayya Dikshitar.
> According to the Madhwas both have had  a number of debates and  Appayya
> lost every time. I have heard from a research scholar that both schools
> record about a particular  between the two and both schools have written in
> their books that  their side won and the other, upon the humiliation, made
> a secret exit from the location.]
> Sri Madhwacharya in his bhashya for the Mandukya passage
> //anAdi mAyayA supto yadA jIvaH prabuddhyate
> ajam anidram asvapnam advaitam budhyate tadA // [This is a kArikA (1.16) as
> per Advaitins and a shruti passage for Dvaitins]
> [16 When the jiva, asleep under the influence of beginningless mAyA, is
> awakened, it then realizes the  birthless, sleepless and dreamless
> Non-duality. ]
> The Mandukya bhashya of Madhwa is available in this pdf:
> http://www.dvaita.net/pdf/shruti/manduka/mbtcomm.pdf<http://http//www.dvaita.net/pdf/shruti/manduka/mbtcomm.pdf>
> Here the mantra of this Upanishad is numbered 2.8 in Sanskrit numerals on
> page 11 of the pdf:
> Sri Madhwacharya comments by citing a 'prakAshikA' verse:
> This verse that comes as the commentary for the above mantra can be found a
> few lines below the above mantra on page 12 of the pdf:
> anAdimAyayA viShNorichchayA svApito yadA
> tayA prabodhamAyAti tadA viShNum prapashyati.
> [Due to anAdimAyA which means ViShNu's Will, the jIva has been made to/put
> into the slumber of samsara. When the jIva, owing to  ViShNu's Will wakes
> up, then he gets the vision/realization of ViShNu.]
>    1. From the above it is clear that according to Madhwa the jiva is in
>    samsara because Vishnu has willed so. And the jiva's waking up to the
>    asamsAric truth is also due to the Lord's will.  Sri Vijayendra Tirtha's
>    analogy of: //*a mother willingly and knowingly giving poison to her
>    child and, then also giving an antidote for the poison // accurately fits
>    the commentarial statement of Madhwa.  For, samsAra is something to be got
>    rid of even for the Dvaitins.  And The Lord (mother) has caused the jiva to
>    be in samsara (poison) by willing so.  **And by providing **the jiva
>    ways and means (antidote) as prescribed by dwaitins (i.e., study of
>    scriptures, bhakti, atma vichaara etc. etc.) by sending a messenger who
>    propounds dwaita which is the antidote for the poison of samsara the Lord
>    (mother) wills that the jiva comes out of samsara. *
>    2. Madhvas accept that the one who gives ajnAna to the jiva is also Hari
>    alone  (A verse from the nyAyasudhA-parimaLa 1-1-2 has been cited by
>    Dr.A.V.Nagasampige in his Kannada book 'mata traya sameekShA p.154: 'tvam
>    muktido bandhado ato mato naH. tvam jnAnado ajnAnadashchAsi viShNo. [O
>    lord, we know You as the one who gives (us) liberation and who gives
>    bondage. You are the One that gives Jnana and ajnAna.]
>    3. According to Madhwa siddhAnta
> http://www.sumadhwaseva.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/MADHWA-SIDDANTA-ENGLISH.pdf
>    12. What is the swaroopa of jeeva? - There are three swaroopaas // 1)
>    Mukti yogya - jnaanananda swaroopa,// those who are truly jnAnAndasvarUpa
>    have been put into samsara by the Lord by His willing so.  According to the
>    above cited Kannada book, jivas are of chidAnanda svarUpa. That book does
>    not differentiate between jiva-s on this ground.
>    4. Why does the Lord do so? 9. What paramathma will get by srushti?
>    - Paramathma will not get anything by srusti. He does not need anything.
>    He does it as if it is his leela.
>    5. All  the attributes of the Lord remain in Him inseparably.
>    6. 15. How does the jeeva get moksha from janmantara kleshaas? - by the
>    mercy of Srihari only.
>    16. How does it happen?
>    - by Shravana, manana, hariguru bhakti, and shama damaadi.
>    7. The prospect of the jiva in Advaita 'knowingly' coming to samsara is
>    also farfetched since the shAnkara bhAShya for the said kArikA is clear
>    that it is due to its own avidyA that the jiva is in samsara.
>    8. The answer to the question //* would anyone knowingly enter/
>    jump into dirt and then clean oneself up from dirt?// is also available in
>    the Madhva siddhAnta: Hari gives the jivas ajnAna in order that they remain
>    in samsara. And jivas are paratantra-s and have to depend on Hari for being
>    in bandha and getting mokSha.  *
>    9. Neither Dvaita nor Advaita lends to the theory of 'the Lord creating
>    jivAtma-s'. They are anAdi in both schools.  Only that in Advaita jIvatvam
>    is a bhrama, again not caused by Ishwara.
> In conclusion, I would like to point out that whether in Dvaita or in
> Advaita, bondage is due to ajnAna and moksha is due to jnAna.  While Dvaita
> stresses Hari's instrumentality explicitly, Advaita acknowledges
> IshvarAnugraha for AdvaitavAsanA but does not admit that Ishwara is
> responsible for bondage.  I have reported before in this forum that during
> the nyAyAmRta-Advaitasiddhi deliberations that I have attended in Bangalore
> at the pUrNaprajnA samshodhana mandiram, no difference of opinion came
> about on the question on 'how samsara comes about'.
> When the various points mentioned in the foregoing are kept in mind there
> will hardly be any room for the kind of criticism purportedly made by Sri
> Vijayendra Tirtha.  And most importantly, anAdimAyA and  samsara are not
> within the gamut of logic.  However much one might try, one cannot explain
> them logically.  That is why Advaita holds all this 'anirvachanIya'.
> Om Tat Sat
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