[Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets

[V Subrahmanian]

On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:34 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Normally, people think that the body of Krishna was non-existent
> (avyaktam) and it became existent (vyaktim) during avatara. It will again
> become non-existent after the avatara ends. However, Krishna asserts that
> it is foolish (abuddhayah) to think so. In gaudiya vaishnavism, Krishna,
> like the sun, is ever existent in His transcendental body (param bhavam
> anuttamam avyayam) that fools don't understand. Madhusudana also uses the
> sun example. In advaita, Krishna exists as brahman (param bhavam anuttamam
> avyayam) and appears in the same form as before. In that sense His body was
> never non-existent and will never be non-existent. However, between
> avataras an advaitin should think that His body is non-existent. Is it not?
> Then an advaitin is also open to the  abuddhayah charge by Krishna. Is it
> not?
>

English translation by Swami Gambhirananda (on Sri Sankaracharya's Sanskrit
Commentary)

7.24 Abuddhayah, the unintelligent, the non-discriminating ones; ajanantah,
unaware; mama, of My; param, supreme; bhavam, state, My reality as the
supreme Self; which is avyayam, immutable, undecaying; and anuttanam,
unsurpassable; manyante, think; mam, of Me; as avyaktam, the unmanifest,
the invisible; Apannam, that has become; vyaktim, manifest, visible, at
present  At present, after being embodied as an Incarnation.- though I am
the ever well-known God. *They think so because they are unaware of My
reality.* This is the idea.What is the reason for their ignorance? This is
being stated:

Sanskrit commentary by Sri Sankaracharya
-- अव्यक्तम् अप्रकाशं व्यक्तिम् आपन्नं प्रकाशं गतम् इदानीं मन्यन्ते मां
नित्यप्रसिद्धमीश्वरमपि सन्तम् अबुद्धयः अविवेकिनः परं भावं परमात्मस्वरूपम्
अजानन्तः अविवेकिनः मम अव्ययं व्ययरहितम् अनुत्तमं निरतिशयं मदीयं भावमजानन्तः
मन्यन्ते इत्यर्थः।।तदज्ञानं किंनिमित्तमित्युच्यते -- ।।7.24।।

The Lord is distinguishing between His body in this avatAra and His
transcendental BrahmasvarUpa which does not undergo any change.  So, the
censure here is of those who do not know this clear distinction.  This
verse of the Lord Himself in the 4.5 will make this clear:

4.5 O Arjuna, bahuni, many; janmani, lives; me, of Mine; vyatitani, have
passed; tava ca, and so have yours. Aham, I; veda know; tani, them;
sarvani, all; (but) tvam, you; va vetta, know not, due to your power of
understanding being obstructed by righteousness, unrighteousness, etc.
However, parantapa, O scorcher of foes; aham, I know, possessing as I do
unobstructed power of knowledge, because by nature I am enternal, pure,
enlightened and free.'In that case, how, in spite of the absence of
righteousness and unrighteousness, can there be any birth for You who are
the eternal God?'That is beng answered:

Sanskrit commentary by Sri Sankaracharya
-- बहूनि मे मम व्यतीतानि अतिक्रान्तानि जन्मानि तव च हे अर्जुन। तानि अहं वेद
जाने सर्वाणि न त्वं वेत्थ न जानीषे, धर्माधर्मादिप्रतिबद्धज्ञानशक्तित्वात्।
अहं पुनः नित्यशुद्धबुद्धमुक्तस्वभावत्वात् अनावरणज्ञानशक्तिरिति वेद अहं हे
परंतप।।कथं तर्हि तव नित्येश्वरस्य धर्माधर्माभावेऽपि जन्म इति, उच्यते --
।।4.5।।

The Lord Himself acknowledges that His several bodies too have passed.  In
that respect, He sees no difference between His several bodies (in several
avataras)  and Arjuna's several bodies in several lives.







> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rajaramvenk at gmail.com
> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 06:40:45
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Reply-To: rajaramvenk at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets
>
> In BhG 7.24, what do avyaktam and vyaktam refer to?
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Swami Sarvabhutananda <swami.sarvabhutananda at gmail.com>
> Sender: "Advaita-l" <advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 15:58:28
> To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
> advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>  <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets
>
> OM
> Appreciate the understanding!
> wishes nd love.
> Swami Sarvabhutananda.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 12:53 PM, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > The term 'unmanifest' is more widely known in Vedanta to mean 'mAyA' /
> > prakRli.  The state of this shakti prior to manifesting as the observable
> > universe is given the name 'avyaktam'.  The vyaktam is the seen universe.
> > There are many verses to denote this in the Bh.Gita.  For example 8.18.
> > However, it is also not wrong to call the Supreme Brahman avyaktam,
> > unmanifest, because It does not become an object for sense perception.
> > This meaning is also found in a verse in the Bh.gita: 8.20 which reads:
> >
> > parastasmAttu bhAvo anyo avyakto avyaktAt sanAtanaH
> > yaH sa sarveShu bhUteShu nashyatsu na vishashyati
> >
> > Here the first occurring 'avyakta' denotes Brahman, the Supreme, which is
> > of a higher status than the second occurring term avyakta which denotes
> > mAyA.
> > While the former is the one which pervades everything in creation, and
> also
> > persists even when everything else has perished, being kUTastha nityam,
> > the latter is of a pariNAmi nityatvam.  It is the teaching of the 13th
> > chapter of the GitA  and the verse 2.16 of the BG that the former is
> satyam
> > and the latter mithyA, from the ultimate standpoint.  Both are
> unmanifest,
> > avyaktam, but in different senses.  So one should be careful about which
> > avyaktam one is talking about at a given juncture.
> >
> > regards
> > subrahmanian.v
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 11:30 AM, Sony Krishna Swamy <
> > sony.soman.pillai at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Please read the article: Unmanifest and its Secrets written by Anand V.
> > > found here:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://advaita-space.org/77-advaita-articles/189-the-unmanifest-and-its-secrets
> > >
> > > We perceive the mundane world and live in it. We enjoy and suffer, get
> > > excited and dejected, live and die in it. The lives of most people pass
> > > away in their struggle to live in the mundane world. They never care to
> > > enquire about the other world or life after death. They give it a
> passing
> > > thought on encountering some failure or bereavement in their lives. But
> > > some discriminative people seriously think of death and the after life.
> > >
> > > Even most of them get satisfied with the description of heaven and
> hell,
> > > believe in them, stop their enquiry. Only a very few are really
> > inquisitive
> > > of the Unmanifest. Their belief in the perceivable ‘Manifest’ is not
> > firm,
> > > is shaky. They doubt its reliability. They yearn to know the
> ‘Unmanifest’
> > > that can put an end to all their troubles.
> > >
> > > The sublime truth is that this ‘Manifest’ universe has for its
> substratum
> > > the ‘Unmanifest’. The ‘Manifest’ includes all that can be perceived-
> the
> > > world, the body, senses, mind, intellect, prana (vital breath), ego and
> > > even Nescience or Avidya felt during deep sleep as ‘nothingness’. These
> > can
> > > be otherwise described as the three bodies- the gross (sthula), subtle
> > > (sookshma) and causal (karana). The Unmanifest is pure consciousness or
> > > awareness that is the witness of all these. That is the ‘Unmanifest’ is
> > the
> > > awareness that is simply aware of all these and their functioning. It
> is
> > > the light that illuminates the mundane world together with the
> mind-body
> > > –ego complex.
> > >
> > >
> > > The Vedas (Purusha Sooktha) says that while the ‘Manifest’ is confined
> to
> > > say ¼th of the creation, 3/4th of it is the ‘Unmanifest’. It further
> > states
> > > that this 3/4th fraction (Unmanifest) abides as immortal, self
> effulgent
> > > divinity.
> > > The Lord too says in the Gita-
> > > “Or, what will you gain by knowing all this in detail, Arjuna? Suffice
> it
> > > to say that I stand holding this entire universe by a fraction of My
> > yogic
> > > power. (10, 42) ”
> > > This proves that the ‘Manifest’ emerges, is sustained, nourished and
> > merges
> > > back into the ‘Unmanifest’.
> > > The real nature of the soul as well as God is ‘Unmanifest’
> consciousness.
> > > The Gita says on this-
> > > “ This soul is unmanifest; it is unthinkable; and it is spoken of as
> > > immutable. (2, 25)”
> > > On the nature of God the Lord says-
> > > “ Not knowing My unsurpassable and undecaying supreme nature, the
> > ignorant
> > > believe Me, the supreme Spirit beyond the reach of mind and senses, the
> > > embodiment of Truth, Knowledge and Bliss, to have assumed a finite form
> > > through birth.”
> > > The Lord cautions us with His inherent great affection for us that we
> > > should not mistake Him as a finite, conditioned Super –personality. We
> > > should not confound Him to a finite being possessed of all powers. He
> can
> > > never ever be limited; for He is infinite immortal awareness. Any other
> > > belief contrary to this truth is self deception which is more pitiable
> > than
> > > suicide. You may accept a beautiful enchanting form for the Lord to
> > worship
> > > and meditate. But it should be carefully remembered that He is never
> > > limited to that form alone. He pervades everything everywhere and yet
> > > abides as the Transcendental Absolute never ever tainted by anything
> > > whatsoever. The Gita too speaks of this sublime truth when it says in
> the
> > > ninth chapter- 4th, 5th and 6th verses-
> > > “The whole of the Universe is permeated by Me as Unmanifest Divinity,
> and
> > > all beings rest on the idea within Me. Therefore, really speaking, Iam
> > not
> > > present in them.
> > > Nay, all those beings abide not in Me; but behold the wonderful power
> of
> > My
> > > divine Yoga; though the Sustainer and Creator of all beings, Myself in
> > > reality dwells not in those beings.
> > > Just as the extensive air, which is moving everywhere ever remains in
> > ether
> > > (space), likewise know that all beings (who have originated from My
> > > thought) abide in Me.”
> > >
> > > In this same chapter the Lord again cautions us not to be deceived by
> His
> > > human semblance.
> > > “Fools, not knowing My supreme nature, think low of Me, the Overlord
> > > (Master) of the entire creation, who have put on the human semblance.
> (9,
> > > 11) “
> > > Finally Vedanta says that all creation (the Manifest) is unreal like
> the
> > > illusory serpent imagined on the real rope in semi darkness during the
> > > twilight period. Thus the ‘Unmanifest’ consciousness alone is real. All
> > > other things are perceived due to delusion or want of knowledge of the
> > real
> > > nature of the Unmanifest. All creation appears due to the incomplete
> > > knowledge of their substratum. In other words only ‘awareness’ or the
> > > Unmanifest alone exists. The Gita voices this basic fundamental truth
> in
> > > the following manner-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > “The unreal has no existence, and the real never ceases to be.”
> > > All the charm, beauty and attractiveness perceived in the Manifest
> > creation
> > > really come from the transcendental beauty of the ‘Unmanifest’. To be
> > aware
> > > of this fact itself is to cherish, admire and adore the ‘Unmanifest’.
> The
> > > inspiring, enchanting beauty of any entity or object opens for us a
> > portal
> > > to the Divine Transcendental Unmanifest for the time being. A glimpse
> of
> > It
> > > is had. But to permanently abide in the Unmanifest conscious detachment
> > and
> > > dispassion are much needed. Even the ego or personality should not
> entice
> > > oneself for that. This happens by the supreme grace of God. Till it
> > > happens, till we retrace our source restlessness and dissatisfaction
> are
> > > inevitable. Only the conscious knowledge of the ‘Unmanifest’ can bestow
> > > Supreme fulfillment and eternal satisfaction that we are ceaselessly
> > > hankering for. But the great paradox is that we are That even now. We
> > ever
> > > abide as That ‘Unmanifest’. Only we have to recognize this soul
> > elevating,
> > > sublime truth.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Sony Krishna Swamy
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> > >
> > > For assistance, contact:
> > > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> > http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
> >
> > To unsubscribe or change your options:
> > http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
> >
> > For assistance, contact:
> > listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> VISIT http://inteligentliving.blogspot.com/
> WELCOME YOUR INTERACTION.
> WISHES.
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
> _______________________________________________
> Archives: http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/
> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.culture.religion.advaita
>
> To unsubscribe or change your options:
> http://lists.advaita-vedanta.org/cgi-bin/listinfo/advaita-l
>
> For assistance, contact:
> listmaster at advaita-vedanta.org
>