[Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets

[Rajaram Venkataramani]

When we wake up from sleep, we see a pot and infer that it is the same pot
that we saw before we went to sleep. Though we did not see the pot, we
don't think on waking that it did not exist when we were asleep. According
to the sastras, the forms of avataras are the same in every cycle. How they
can be called anitya?




On Thursday, July 4, 2013, V Subrahmanian wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 7:35 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What about Krishna, Rama, Siva? I'm not talking about sun, moon, stars
>> etc.
>>
>
>
> We have seen the shAnkara sUtra bhAShya vAkyam:  syAt parameshwarasyApi
> ichchAvashAt mAyAmayam rUpam, sAdhakAnugrahArtham [Ishwara can assume a
> form, which is mAyic, for the sake of blessing the aspirant.
>
> As per the Veda there is no rUpam for Brahman.  Any rUpam is possible only
> with the association of mAyA.  It is out of the aspirant's devotion that he
> is able to have the vision of his iShTa devatA with the desired form either
> in the waking or in the dream.  Even today devotees are reported to have
> had darshana  of one or the other form of Rama, Krishna,  Shiva, etc.  The
> most lovely vision of the deity's form had after deep prayer will not stay
> in the devotee's deep sleep.  That shows that the form is anitya.  Only the
> devotee's Self neither rises or sets.  The Panchadashi verse puts it in an
> unmatched way:
>
> सबोधोविषयाद्भिन्नो न बोधात्स्वप्नबोधवत् ।
> एवं स्थानत्रयेऽप्येका संवित्तद्वद्दिनान्तरे ॥६॥
> This consciousness (in the deep sleep state) is indeed distinct from the
> object (here, ignorance), but not from it ātmā, as is the consciousness in
> the state of dream. Thus in all the three states the consciousness (being
> homogeneous) is the same. It is so in other days too.
>
> Swami Vidyaranya, after establishing through logic and one's own universal
> experience, says that the conclusion arrived at  //Thus in all the three
> states the consciousness (being homogeneous) is the same.// in respect of
> one day, is the same in other days too.  And he extends this to all times
> to come:
>
> मासाब्दायुगकल्पेषु गतागम्येष्वनेकधा ।
> नोदेति नास्तमेत्येका संविदेषा स्वयंप्रभा ॥७॥
>
> Through the many months, years, ages and world cycles, past and future,
> consciousness is the same; it neither rises nor sets; it is self-revealing.
>
>
>
> pl. read the earlier verses for the full import of the above verses:
> http://www.vedantavichara.com/tattvaviveka.html
>
>
>
>
>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Swami Sarvabhutananda <swami.sarvabhutananda at gmail.com>
>> Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2013 17:59:03
>> To: Rajaram Venkataramani<rajaramvenk at gmail.com>; A discussion group for
>> Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets
>>
>> OM
>> The Sun,the Moon,the stars,the oceans will disappear in time!
>> Drishta nashta svabhAvAt.
>> Any thing in the fold of time space and object is anityam.
>> wishes and love.
>> Swami Sarvabhutananda
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 4, 2013 at 4:34 PM, <rajaramvenk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Normally, people think that the body of Krishna was non-existent
>> > (avyaktam) and it became existent (vyaktim) during avatara. It will
>> again
>> > become non-existent after the avatara ends. However, Krishna asserts
>> that
>> > it is foolish (abuddhayah) to think so. In gaudiya vaishnavism, Krishna,
>> > like the sun, is ever existent in His transcendental body (param bhavam
>> > anuttamam avyayam) that fools don't understand. Madhusudana also uses
>> the
>> > sun example. In advaita, Krishna exists as brahman (param bhavam
>> anuttamam
>> > avyayam) and appears in the same form as before. In that sense His body
>> was
>> > never non-existent and will never be non-existent. However, between
>> > avataras an advaitin should think that His body is non-existent. Is it
>> not?
>> > Then an advaitin is also open to the  abuddhayah charge by Krishna. Is
>> it
>> > not?
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: rajaramvenk at gmail.com
>> > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2013 06:40:45
>> > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> > Reply-To: rajaramvenk at gmail.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets
>> >
>> > In BhG 7.24, what do avyaktam and vyaktam refer to?
>> > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Swami Sarvabhutananda <swami.sarvabhutananda at gmail.com>
>> > Sender: "Advaita-l" <advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> > Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 15:58:28
>> > To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<
>> > advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> > Reply-To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
>> >  <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets
>> >
>> > OM
>> > Appreciate the understanding!
>> > wishes nd love.
>> > Swami Sarvabhutananda.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 12:53 PM, V Subrahmanian <
>> v.subrahmanian at gmail.com
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > The term 'unmanifest' is more widely known in Vedanta to mean 'mAyA' /
>> > > prakRli.  The state of this shakti prior to manifesting as the
>> observable
>> > > universe is given the name 'avyaktam'.  The vyaktam is the seen
>> universe.
>> > > There are many verses to denote this in the Bh.Gita.  For example
>> 8.18.
>> > > However, it is also not wrong to call the Supreme Brahman avyaktam,
>> > > unmanifest, because It does not become an object for sense perception.
>> > > This meaning is also found in a verse in the Bh.gita: 8.20 which
>> reads:
>> > >
>> > > parastasmAttu bhAvo anyo avyakto avyaktAt sanAtanaH
>> > > yaH sa sarveShu bhUteShu nashyatsu na vishashyati
>> > >
>> > > Here the first occurring 'avyakta' denotes Brahman, the Supreme,
>> which is
>> > > of a higher status than the second occurring term avyakta which
>> denotes
>> > > mAyA.
>> > > While the former is the one which pervades everything in creation, and
>> > also
>> > > persists even when everything else has perished, being kUTastha
>> nityam,
>> > > the latter is of a pariNAmi nitya
>>
>
>