[Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets

[Shrinivas Gadkari]

Namaste,
 
tattvas can be classified into three categories:
1. shuddha
2. shuddha-ashuddha
3. ashuddha
 
shuddha tattvas belong to the domain of nirguNa brahma.
ashuddha tattvas belong to the domain of jIva.
 
The most interesting is the second category which though a 
product of Adi mAyA - has not been corrupted to fall into the
domain of the jIva. This is the level at which there is
freedom from limitations of jIva. This is the world of
Ishavara. If I understand correctly, this is the state
of "moksha". At this level there are forms that are
shAshavata, nitya. This is where the vaikuNtha, kailasa
exist. The state of asymptotic perfection at this level
is the state of saguNa brahma.
 
Based on my understanding:
State 3 - state of jIva is the one that we seek to liberate
ourselves from.
State 1- state of nirguNa brahma is to be "known" - this cannot
be attained. No one, has attained this state. Not shrI krishNa,
not shrI rAma, not shrI Vishnu, not shrI shiva, not shrI Adi shankara, 
no saint, no one at all.
State 2 - state of saguNa brahama is all anyone can aspire to 
asymptotically attain (note again the word "asymptotically").
 
I find the particular flavour of Vedanta that is advocated by many
list members, where they are trying to reach State-3 from State-1,
a little amusing to say the least.
 
What then is the value of the knowledge of nirguNa brahma"?
In State-3 there is avidyA. avidyA is not understanding how
the nirguNa brahma gets projected as saguNa vishva. It is
the progressive removal of this avidyA by knowledge of
nirguNa brahma that enables one to establish one in the 
State-2. upAsanA/ sAdhanA is the means to achieve this.
avidyA is anAdi and ananta. It is removed only asymptotically.
 
 
hari om.
 
Regards,
Shrinivas
 
 
 
>How about giving our dharma some chance? The bodies of the realised 
>masters are made of 5 elements born of karma. Rama and Krishna have eternal 
>bodies not born of karma. 
>
There are some problems in such a thinking.  All the bodies, Rama, Krishna,
etc. appeared at a particular point of time and also disappeared after the
purpose for which they specifically appeared.  The Lord Himself
acknowledges this in the 4th ch. of the BG: bahUni mE vyatItAni janmAni tava
cha arjuna....Many lives of Mine have passed...also yours....A 'janma'
cannot be without a body and that is what the Lord, as Parameswara, is
referring to here.  We cannot say that those bodies are eternal any more
than the bodies of humans, however exalted they might have been.  Even
today, and all times to come, such great personalities who have lived and
passed away, can be related to/with by devotees.  They appear in the
waking, in forms of visions, and in dreams too, to bless these devotees.
So are the forms of Rama, Krishna, etc.  It is only in that way their
bodies can be said to be eternal.  An ardent devotee has every right to
hold his Acharya to be an avatAra.  He might very strongly argue that his
Acharya descended on this earth to  bless him and others and that his birth
is not karma-driven.  Such beliefs will certainly give some benefits to the
person who holds them.