[Advaita-l] Unmanifest and its Secrets

[Bhaskar YR]

Namaste,

> praNAms
> Hare Krishna

>  Hope you wont mind if I butt-in with my doubts & observations here :

tattvas can be classified into three categories:
1. shuddha
2. shuddha-ashuddha
3. ashuddha

shuddha tattvas belong to the domain of nirguNa brahma.
ashuddha tattvas belong to the domain of jIva.

The most interesting is the second category which though a 
product of Adi mAyA - has not been corrupted to fall into the
domain of the jIva. 

>  You said second category is the product of Adi mAya, kindly clarify to 
which category this Adi mAya belongs to ??


This is the level at which there is
freedom from limitations of jIva. This is the world of
Ishvara. 

> If the second category is world of Ishwara ( say hiraNya garbha lOka) 
and its owner is someone different from jeeva, how can jeeva be free from 
his limitations here??  Dont you think as long as jeeva bhAva is there in 
jeeva, even though he is in Ishwara's world, he is not free from the 
limitations??


If I understand correctly, this is the state
of "mokSa". 

>  IMHO, this is not absolute mOksha according to advaita, shankara talks 
about krama mukti through dhyAnOpAsana and jeeva stays in hiraNya garbha 
lOka and after mahA pralaya the jnAni jeeva who stayed in this lOka would 
become ONE or attains the ultimate mOksha. 

At this level there are forms that are shAshvata, nitya. 

>  when compared to martya lOka we might say names & forms in Ishwara's 
lOka are more lasting, but I dont think we can attribute shAshvatatva, 
nityatva to these names & forms.

This is where the vaikuNTha, kailAsa exist. The state of asymptotic 
perfection at this level is the state of saguNa brahma.

>  According to strict advaita siddhAnta, the saguNa brahma is kevala 
vyAvahArika satya and his potencies are kevala adhyArOpita on nirvishesha 
brahman. 

Based on my understanding:
State 3 - state of jIva is the one that we seek to liberate
ourselves from.

>  Yes, jeeva's goal is to get rid of his/her avidyA through ekatva jnAna. 
 

State 1- state of nirguNa brahma is to be "known" - this cannot
be attained.

>  knowing/realizing itself is attaining in advaita vedAnta..brahma vit 
brahmaiva bhavati is the shruti pramANa.  Yes, this state cannot be 
attained as this state is not a separate state that needs to be attained, 
as it is the 'true' svarUpa of that jeeva. 

 No one, has attained this state. 

>  yes, because there is no nirguNa brahma state as such :-)) 

Not shrI krishNa, not shrI rAma, not shrI Vishnu, not shrI shiva, not shrI 
Adi shankara, 
no saint, no one at all.

>  if at all there is a state of nirguNa brahma, the question of attaining 
or reaching that state would arise, here question of attaining something 
'aloof' (i.e. nirguNa brahma state) does not arise at all because there 
exists nothing like this !!


State 2 - state of saguNa brahama is all anyone can aspire to 
asymptotically attain (note again the word "asymptotically").

>  kindly pardon me, kindly explain this term 'asymptotically' in a simple 
language as I am unable to understand this word. 

I find the particular flavour of Vedanta that is advocated by many
list members, where they are trying to reach State-1 from State-3,
a little amusing to say the least.

>  Yes, the advaita vedAnta teaches us that residents of state-3 do not 
belong to state-3 at all they were/are/will always be the sole reality 
(secondless reality) of 'socalled' state -1 :-))

What then is the value of the knowledge of nirguNa brahma"?
In State-3 there is avidyA. avidyA is not understanding how
the nirguNa brahma gets projected as saguNa vishva. It is
the progressive removal of this avidyA by knowledge of
nirguNa brahma that enables one to establish one in the 
State-2. upAsanA/ sAdhanA is the means to achieve this.

>  yes, upAsana / dhyAna etc. meant for achieving this state-2 and shAstra 
shravaNAdi direct sAdhana-s are meant for realizing that we are THAT which 
is one without second. 

Kindly pardon me & correct me if I said anything against to the advaita 
siddhAnta.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar

avidyA is anAdi and ananta. It is removed only asymptotically.