[Advaita-l] Locus of maayaa and avidyaa

[rajaramvenk at gmail.com]

Did Sankara interchange-ably use avidya and maya or not? 
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-----Original Message-----
From: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 05:58:10 
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>,
	A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
	<advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Locus of maayaa and avidyaa

Bhaskarji - PraNAms
I
just want to specify not knowing what you agree and what you do not agree with
the statements I made based on my understanding. I am making it clearer in case
if there is any misunderstanding of what I stated. I have no disagreements with Subbuji - only
mine are clarifying statements for purpose of clear understanding without
causing confusion. 
1. avidyaa either at jiiva level or maayaa
at Iswara level are also part of vyaavahaarika only - hence mithyaa - hence sat
asat vilakshanNam - hence bhaava-abhaava vilakshaNam too. 
2.
avidyaa at jiiva level contributes both sopaadika as well as nirupaadika
adhyaasa. Hence jiivas sRiShTi as in the case of snake where rope is or the
dream creation, etc. are nirupaadika adhyaasa. The sopaadika adhyaasa is taking
the world, which is nothing but Brahman or the Iswara sRishTi, as real. Hence we say
avidyaa has two components - aavaraNa and Vikshepa. The jiiva sRishTi which
also involves samsaara goes away when jiiva realizes and become jiivan mukta.
However the sopaadika adhyaasa remains as long as BMI of the jiivan mukta
remains since it is Iswara sRishTi and not jiiva sRishTi. Hence here vidyaa of
jiiva does not eliminate the maayaa of Iswara. This distinction is very
important - hence I feel it is better to differentiate avidyaa and maayaa, even though the
original cause for all this is muula avidya loused in Brahman. Here we should
not say muula avidya is loused on jiiva - since all jiivas have this. It is
better to call this as maayaa and forming Brahman as Iswara as his shakti for
creation. 
3. My only statement is that the confusion get
compounded when we interchangeably use avidyaa and maayaa in the same
connotation. The misunderstandings as stated in these discussions follow.
Hari Om!
Sadananda


>________________________________
> From: Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>
>To: kuntimaddi sadananda <kuntimaddisada at yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta <advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 8:28 AM
>Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Locus of maayaa and avidyaa
>  
>
>praNAms Sri Sadananda prabhuji
>Hare Krishna
>
>After almost a gap of fortnight I am looking at my un-official mails in 
>inbox :-)) and first post of yours itself immediately dragged my 
>attention, because, as you know, avidyA & maya both are my pet topics 
>apart from jnAni of advaita & his BMI :-))  And you may have to forgive me 
>as without reading previous posts on this thread I am replying to your 
>mail.  Here is my few thoughts on some of your observation :
>
>
>Second, since there is nothing other than Brahman, locus for anything 
>cannot but be Brahman. At the same time, Brahman being infiniteness cannot 
>be locus for anything.
>
>>  Yes, when we consider the sarva vyApakatvaM of brahma, we cannot have 
>bifurcation like this Ashraya and Ashrita or mere antaryAmitva and 
>sarvavyApakatva. 
>
>
>Hence the whole discussion of the existence of maayaa and avidyaa are in 
>the realm of vyavahaara only. 
>
>> yes, and in addition all these talks about mAya, avidyA, brahma etc. are 
>from jeeva's point of view only...brahma which is nitya shuddha, buddha, 
>mukta svarUpa does not have anything to do in this avidyAkalpita dvaita 
>vyavahAra.
>
>However, vyavahaara itself is product of maayaa from the point of Iswara 
>and avidya from
>the point of jiiva. 
>
>>  Since we are more particular about getting rid of our (jeeva's) avidyA 
>it is better to talk about avidyA of jeeva instead of deciding on 
>Ishwara's mAyA vilAsa or leela :-))
>
>Personally I prefer the use of maayaa at Iswara level and
>avidyaa at the jiiva level for one important reason. 
>
>
>>  and shankara too rightly says mAya is Ishwaraadheena (vide geeta 
>bhAshya, tAm prakrutiM svAM adhishtAya vasheekrutya saMbhavAmi dehavAniva 
>bhavAmi jAta iva ityAdi) and avidyA is jeeva's antaHkaraNa dOsha (vide 
>taitereeya bhAshya). 
>
>We need to distinguish Iswara sRishTi and jiiva sRishTi - 
>
>>  jeeva srushti is due to avidyA (adhyAsa), when this adhyAsa goes, jeeva 
>realizes that Ishwara srushti 'as it is' in its svarUpa nothing but that 
>THAT. 
>
>avidya locus of jiiva since it is the mind of the jiiva that is deluded 
>but not the
>mind of Iswara. 
>
>>  again, I reckon instead of scratching our head on Ishwara's mind, it is 
>better to focus on our (jeeva's) mind which is deluded and seeing one 
>thing for another :-)) If we are seeing the snake in place of rope then it 
>is our problem, what samashti srushti has to do with this karaNa dOsha??
>
>Hence self-realization or jnaanam occurs at the level of jiiva's mind and 
>is not needed at Iswara's level. 
>
>>  Yes, by the grace of Ishwara jeeva realizes that his svarUpa is no more 
>a tiny self but it is SELF which is secondless.
>
>The realization at Jiiva level also occurs as Upahita chaitanyam, where 
>the upaadhi is his own BMI - it involves destruction of avidyaa but not 
>destruction of maayaa which is at Iswara level. 
>
>>  After the destruction of avidyA, erstwhile jeeva realizes that Ishwara 
>mAya or srushti is nothing but HIS own, there is a beautiful bhAshya vAkya 
>for this in chAndOgya, but I cannot recall it right now!! 
>
>
>Hence as we saw extended discussions in the other list, there is a 
>significant confusion in terms of misunderstanding of destruction of the 
>whole creation saying that jnaani does not have BMI 
>
>>  I am sorry, those who are talking about abhAva of jnAni's BMI do not 
>saying that after jnAna, the whole creation would vanish like a flash in a 
>pan :-)) have you seen any statements like that prabhuji??
>
>and has no perception of the world of plurality, when Jiiva attains 
>self-realization. 
>
>>  IMO, there is a valley of difference between saying : 'no perception of 
>the world of plurality' and 'jnAni's sarvAtmaikatva adviteeya drushti. 
>
>This problem seems to be somewhat deep-rooted as we see here as well as in 
>the other lists due to some incorrect interpretations that were passed on. 
>
>
>>  IMHO, this is what other camp too thinking, it is due to incorrect 
>interpretation of some shruti/smruti/bhAshya vAkya-s, others are wrongly 
>attributing kAma-krOdha to paramArtha jnAni in the name of prArabdha karma 
>and avidyA lesha.  Kindly dont think this is an attempt to 'level the 
>scores', it is the sincere opinion of those who hold advaita's paramArtha 
>jnAni/jnAna at high esteem. 
>
>
>In essence, I feel it is more clearly understood if one uses avidyaa at 
>the jiiva level and maayaa at the
>Iswara level; although it is muula avidyaa as the primordial cause for 
>creation. Most of the confusion, here and elsewhere (in terms of what is 
>the status of jiiva mukta) is due to this confusion of the terms of 
>avidyaa vs maayaa.
>
>>  I agree with you...but BTW, what is your suggestion to those who argue 
>that avidyA = mAya  :-))
>
>My 2 cents.
>
>>  just my 2 naya paisa
>
>Hari Om!
>Sadananda
>
>Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
>bhaskar
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