[Advaita-l] Reply to Sri Vidyamanya Tirtha's observations

[kuntimaddi sadananda]

Vidyaji - PraNAms

Very clear elucidation of the Advaita Principles. Jnaana-karma samuchchaya vaada forms a major purpaksha in Shankara Bhaashya, clearly addressed in his introduction to Karmayoga chapter in Geeta. 

You patience in addressing the issues is very much appreciated. 

Hari Om!
Sadananda


--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/26/13, Vidyasankar Sundaresan <svidyasankar at hotmail.com> wrote:


  
 
 1. No one, not a single one, among traditional Vedantins
 says that Sankara bhagavatpAda is "against"
 yajna-s. I will leave aside "modern Vedantins" here, as it
 is not clear to me which group(s) you mean by
 this term.
 
  
 
 2. However, every truly traditional Vedantin has understood
 that in the final analysis, as per Sankara
 bhagavatpAda's teaching, moksha is through jnAna alone. And
 jnAna, pure jnAna, stands apart from
 any and all kind of karmA. "jnAnAd eva tu kaivalyam" is an
 ancient aphorism.
 
  
 
 3. Every truly traditional Vedantin has also understood that
 as per Sankara bhagavatpAda's teaching,
 performance of yajna-dAnAdi karmA-s are for citta Suddhi.
 
  
 
 4. No truly traditional Vedantin can agree that jnAna is
 always and necessarily automatic with citta
 Suddhi. There is such a thing as the need for sAdhana
 towards jnAna after citta Suddhi is attained.
 There is such a thing as the need for a guru/AcArya to
 deliver that jnAna to the citta that is Suddha.
 AcAryavaN purusho veda is a line from the chAndogyopanishat.
 All the seekers in the praSna text are
 quite advanced in citta Suddhi, but they approach a guru for
 brahmajnAna and to learn the sAdhana
 towards it. nArada was highly learned, and presumably
 performed all the nitya karmA needed for years
 on end, but still had to approach sanatkumAra. bhRgu had to
 go to varuNa. 
 
  
 
 5. Most crucially, to properly understand Sankara
 bhagavatpAda, it is not enough to keep talking of the
 need of yajnAdi for citta Suddhi and then obfuscate that
 with a supposed need for performing karmA
 AFTER the rise of samyag-jnAna. Such confused thinking about
 karmA and jnAna is the *only* aspect 
 that I have been criticizing in your previous posts. Please
 go back and read through your posts, their
 assumptions and my responses carefully. I have never claimed
 that Sankara bhagavatpAda is against
 yajna-s. Such meaningless and contentless statements are
 outside the range of what I write, because I
 think Sankara bhagavatpAda is never against anything in a
 totally unqualified manner. But he is definitely
 against a muddled interpretation of the vedAnta according to
 which performance of karmA is necessary
 to gain brahmajnAna after the rise of
 upanishad-vAkya-janita-jnAna. If you say that a lot of
 people have
 heard "ahaM brahmAsmi," but they are not brahmajnAnIs, and
 that such people need karmA, you are
 partially right and partially wrong. Such people may not be
 brahmajnAnIs, agreed, because they have 
 heard the words of the upanishad vAkya, but the jnAna
 conveyed through that vAkya has not yet been
 born in their minds. The remedy for such people is not the
 performance of yet more karmA, but a slow
 withdrawal from karmA, if not a radical break from all
 karmA. Either way, the process has to go through
 a state where karmA is renounced, either formally in the
 traditional conception of vividishA saMnyAsa
 or as a matter of course, no matter what ASrama they find
 themselves in. Finally, when the jnAna "aham
 
 akartA" has been realized, karmA itself is a total
 impossibility. This is one of the crucial cornerstones of
 what advaita vedAnta is all about. Till such time as such
 jnAna arises, karmA has a very important place,
 first in its diligent performance and then in its
 renunciation. It has no place AFTER the rise of jnAna.
 
  
 
 I hope the nature of the criticism against your stance is
 clear. And I hope that the traditional view about 
 the place of yajna-s and karmA in the process of sAdhana is
 also clear.
 
  
 
 Vidyasankar 
  
 
 > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:45:15 +0530
 > From: vmurthy36 at gmail.com
 > To: advaita-l at lists.advaita-vedanta.org
 > Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] Reply to Sri Vidyamanya
 Tirtha's observations
 > 
 > Namaste Vidyasankar
 > 
 > There is a book in Google books - Mimansa and Advaita.
 If you read the book
 > you can see Kumarila and Mandana and Adi Sankara are
 all saying Nitya Karma
 > is for PapaKshaya and Citta Suddhi. Kumarila is
 supporting Moksha also. He
 > is saying no point in going to heaven and enjoying all
 the time. When Citta
 > Suddhi happens the Jnana is automatic because in Nitya
 Karma Upanishad
 > reading is also included. Adi Sankara is making this
 statement in Br Up 4 -
 > 4 - 22. When he reads Vedas and Upanishad daily with
 Purified Mind the
 > Upanishad Vakya Jnana will happen automatically.
 > 
 > I am not saying Guru is not required. Guru will only
 teach Upanishads but
 > student without Citta Suddhi will not get Jnana. He has
 to practice Nitya
 > Karma including reading and meditating on Upanishads.
 Mandana is saying
 > both meditation and Yajnas will be required.
 > 
 > All these years the olden Vedantists and modern
 Vedantists have argued Adi
 > Sankara is against Yajnas. But it is a lie. Adi Sankara
 supported Yajnas if
 > they are Nitya Karma.
 > 
 > 
 > On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 9:27 PM, Vidyasankar Sundaresan
 <
 > svidyasankar at hotmail.com>
 wrote:
 > 
 > >
 > > > But a Gruhastha has every right to purify his
 mind with Nitya Karmas like
 > > > Sandhyavandana and many Yajnas. He can
 practice Karma Yoga. By
 > > Purification
 > > > of mind he will come to the door step of Atma
 Jnana. He can do Sravana,
 > > > Manana and Nididhyasana of Upanishad Vakyas
 and become Atma Jnani. He has
 > > > used all the portions of the Veda like
 Mantras, Brahmanas and Upanishads
 > > to
 > > > get Atma Jnana. Then he can take Vidvat
 Sanyasa.
 > >
 > >
 > > So, what happened to your earlier stance that
 yajnAdi karmA-s are required
 > > for
 > > realizing brahman AFTER the knowledge, ahaM
 brahmAsmi, has already arisen?
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > And please note that vidvat saMnyAsa is not
 something that is to be given
 > > or
 > > taken. It just is, as the natural state of
 brahmanishThA. No karmA is
 > > possible
 > > or even necessary as a step toward brahman
 realization for vidvat
 > > saMnyAsin-s.
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > > In Br Up 4-4-22 Adi Sankara is explaining the
 path for Brahmana
 > > Gruhasthas.
 > > > They can get Atma Jnana easily by following
 Karma Yoga itself. By
 > > following
 > > > Karma they can come almost full distance to
 Moksha.
 > >
 > >
 > > Whence this "almost full distance"? What is the
 step involved in covering
 > > that
 > > last remaining gap? Read further and go to Br Up
 4-4-23, where the text
 > > says,
 > > SAnto-dAnta-uparatas-titikshus-samAhitaH and read
 the bhAshya thereon,
 > > where Sankara bhagavatpAda introduces the word
 saMnyAsa, highlighting the
 > > importance he gives to this ASrama.
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > That said, going from brahmacaryASrama directly to
 saMnyAsa is a rarity.
 > > The
 > >
 > > typical path that would apply to most people is
 one of progressing through
 > > the various ASrama-s, with saMnyAsa as the final
 stage. Everything prior to
 > > that is preparatory. After saMnyAsa, how can
 yajnAdi karmA-s be possible,
 > > whether as means to brahman realization or
 otherwise? A gRhastha, who is
 > > attached to the performance of karmA till the very
 end, is not eligible for
 > > saMnyAsa, either of the vividishA or the vidvat
 kind. Which means he is not
 > > a brahmajnAnI, as he is still subject to kartRtva
 buddhi, one of the
 > > effects
 > > of avidyA.
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > > The tragedy is most of the Vyakhyana Karas
 have not understood the
 > > > concessions Adi Sankara has given to Brahmana
 Gruhasthas. They are all
 > > > misunderstanding the importance of Karma and
 saying silly things about
 > > > Karma like Karma is useless for Brahma Jnana.
 They are not realizing ALL
 > > > PARTS of Veda are important for Atma Jnana.
 Karma Kanda is not inferior
 > > > and Upanishads are not superior. Both have a
 role.
 > >
 > >
 > > Which vyAkhyAna-kAras are you talking about here?
 None of the traditional
 > > authors has misunderstood the importance of karmA
 for those who are not
 > > ready for saMnyAsa. But at the end, there is an
 important step of the
 > > giving
 > > up of all karmA, either through a formal
 renunciation process or as a
 > > natural
 > > state of jnAna. At the end, jnAna stands apart
 from karmA.
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > The core concept of jnAna-karma-samuccaya vAda,
 that karmA is needed for
 > > realizing brahman after the rise of
 upanishad-vAkyajanita jnAna, is
 > > utterly and
 > > completely rejected by Sankara. If you think that
 those who talk about
 > > this are
 > > mistaken when they seem to thereby devalue karmA,
 please go back to my
 > > first
 > > question to you in this response.
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > Best regards,
 > >
 > > Vidyasankar
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > _______________________________________________
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 > 
 > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > Regards
 > 
 > -Venkatesh
 > _______________________________________________
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