[Advaita-l] Samit Pani, do we really have to stretch this ??

Sujal Upadhyay sujal.u at gmail.com
Tue Oct 29 10:07:56 CDT 2013
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Agreed :)

It is important to note that, though Nirvikalpa Samadi ultimately leads to
> Jnana, Nirvikalpa Samadi as such cannot be equated with Jnana.
>

This may start yet another discussion :)

Namaste

Sujal

OM

Sujal Upadhyay

"To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi

He who has faith has all
He who lacks faith, lacks all
It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna


On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Nithin Sridhar <sridhar.nithin at gmail.com>wrote:

> I agree with you that at highest level, there is neither creation nor
> dissolution. No bandana no Mukti. When Maya does not exist, where is the Q
> of Prarabda?
>
> But, I was only speaking from Vyavaharika. :) Gaudapadacharya has indeed
> explained in excellent way.
>
> It is important to note that, though Nirvikalpa Samadi ultimately leads to
> Jnana, Nirvikalpa Samadi as such cannot be equated with Jnana.
>
> -Nithin
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Nithin ji,
> >
> > You are not contradicting me. What I am saying is that Sri Ramakrishna
> said
> > that only a handful of few are able to come back from Nirvikkalp samadhi.
> > This happens by will of God. Everything is pseudo. Not the real thing. No
> > real Prarabhdha. There is a case with Yogis like Paramhansa Dropping his
> > body at will, Mahaavatar Babaji transformed his body into light. Swami
> Rama
> > was destined to die young. His Guru saved him from the clutches of death.
> >
> > I have not read Sutra Bhashya. Hence I cannot comment on it. All I can
> say
> > is that initially it is taught to give logical explanation. Later on,
> that
> > explanation is negated like in Aparokshanubhuti it is negated.
> >
> > We have even seen Ishvara getting angry for devotees. The question of
> Jivan
> > Mukta and their existence is related to Prarabhdha, is very logical. when
> > the entire world is negated in ajAta vAda, and there is no creation, as
> > pure consciousness, then there is no question of PrArabhdha. IMHO, I
> think
> > that from Parmarthik Satya, there is no Prarabhdha. But in this case,
> > updesha cannot be given, s the natural and only state is maun. Only maun
> is
> > capable enough to expression atma sthiti. To give instruction,
> > GauDapadAchArya has said in his kArikA that role of Guru and Shishya is
> > only for explanatory purpose. Else who is disciple and who is Guru, there
> > are no two.
> >
> > I think the theory of Prarabhdha has to be taken from practical
> standpoint.
> > It is only my personal opinion.
> >
> > Hari OM
> >
> > Sujal
> >
> >
> > OM
> >
> > Sujal Upadhyay
> >
> > "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> > nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> >
> > He who has faith has all
> > He who lacks faith, lacks all
> > It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> > FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 6:07 PM, Nithin Sridhar <
> sridhar.nithin at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Sujal ji,
> > >
> > > If Prarabda is not present, why would in Brahmasutra 4.1.13 it is
> > > said-"When Knowledge is attained, there is destruction and
> nullification
> > of
> > > past and future Karmas".?
> > >
> > > If Prarabda is not remaining, then a person who attains Jnana becomes
> > > Videha-Mukta immediately. But, we see that so many Jivan-Muktas are
> > present
> > > for the welfare of the world. When a person attaining Jnana has
> > > extinguished all Prarabda Karma( that were responsible for his present
> > > body), then he would become "Videha Mukta" immediately. On the other
> > hand,
> > > if  a Jnani remains in the world as Jivan-Mukta, its because the
> Prarabda
> > > Karmas responsible for the body is yet to completely extinguished.
> > >
> > > But, I am not saying that Prarabda creates limitations in a Jnani.
> > Instead
> > > I am saying, that the body is maintained due to the Prarabda (Even
> > > Ramakrishna is saying so in the above quote).
> > >
> > > For a Jnani, all Avidya has been indeed destroyed, but the momentum
> > caused
> > > due to Avidya remains a little even after its destruction. This as I
> > > understand, is variously called as Avidya Lesha or Prarabda. Because,
> > > without that, then a Jnani living in his body is not possible. This was
> > > what Ramakrishna meant by "Retaining connection with body/Ego etc"
> > >
> > > I feel I am not at all contradicting you when you say, Jnani has no
> > > limitations. Jnani is without Karma. That is what I have written in my
> > > piece.
> > >
> > > "The action by its very nature is due to Ignorance. An activity
> assumes a
> > > subject, object and the action. But, a Jnani who has realized Brahman
> as
> > > being beyond all activity, beyond all mutability, eternal, birth-less
> etc
> > > How can such a Jnani perceive Birth, death and such mutations? How can
> > such
> > > person perceive the duality subject and object? How will such a person
> be
> > > subjected to or bounded by Karma?"
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://nithinsridhar.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/random-musings-part-17-the-state-of-jnana/
> > >
> > >
> > > -Nithin S
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 5:39 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <sujal.u at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > These days, instead of 'samit', an android phone with a working
> > > internet
> > > > > connectivity to a 'realised guru' who can guide one through the
> maze
> > of
> > > > > 'samsara' aided by the 'sastra' and grace of god should do the
> work!
> > > Not
> > > > > forgetting to carry suitable gifts & prostrate with humility
> > > > > -'shiShyaste.aha.n shAdhi mA.n tvA.n prapannam'
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > Balagopal
> > > > > PS: even this forum is helping mumukshus in keep going forward.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Maybe Upanishad would mean - to stay connected to Guru via internet
> > ;)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > OM
> > > >
> > > > Sujal Upadhyay
> > > >
> > > > "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else is
> > > > nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> > > >
> > > > He who has faith has all
> > > > He who lacks faith, lacks all
> > > > It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> > > > FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 4:43 PM, balagopal ramakrishnan <
> > > > rbalpal at yahoo.co.in
> > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >>>"samit" is the upa-lakSaNa as mentioned in vedantasara.
> > > > >
> > > > > These days, instead of 'samit', an android phone with a working
> > > internet
> > > > > connectivity to a 'realised guru' who can guide one through the
> maze
> > of
> > > > > 'samsara' aided by the 'sastra' and grace of god should do the
> work!
> > > Not
> > > > > forgetting to carry suitable gifts & prostrate with humility
> > > > > -'shiShyaste.aha.n shAdhi mA.n tvA.n prapannam'
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Balagopal
> > > > > PS: even this forum is helping mumukshus in keep going forward.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tuesday, 29 October 2013 2:52 PM, Sujal Upadhyay <
> > sujal.u at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Namaste,
> > > > >
> > > > > @ Nithin ji,
> > > > >
> > > > > Prarabhdha is negated by BG 4
> > > > >
> > > > > *Adhyaropa*
> > > > >
> > > > > न हि कश्चित्क्षणमपि जातु तिष्ठत्यकर्मकृत्।
> > > > > कार्यते ह्यवशः कर्म सर्वः प्रकृतिजैर्गुणैः।।3.5।।
> > > > >
> > > > > 3.5 Because, no one ever remains even for a moment without doing
> > work.
> > > > For
> > > > > all are made to work under compulsion by the gunas born of Nature.
> > > > >
> > > > > *ApavAda*
> > > > >
> > > > > यथैधांसि समिद्धोऽग्निर्भस्मसात्कुरुतेऽर्जुन।
> > > > > ज्ञानाग्निः सर्वकर्माणि भस्मसात्कुरुते तथा।।4.37।।
> > > > >
> > > > > 4.37 Just as burning fire turns fuel to ashes, O Arjuna, so does
> the
> > > fire
> > > > > of knowledge turn all Karma to ashes.
> > > > >
> > > > > The explanation for Prarabhdha is only for the those who cannot
> > believe
> > > > > when they see Jnani undergoing suffering or getting sick, etc. Else
> > how
> > > > can
> > > > > one attain Jnana if there is anything left in mind.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here in BG, Bhagavan says all karmas, which includes Prarabhdha
> too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sri Ramakrishna says that just to retain the connection with body,
> a
> > > > Jnani
> > > > > shows some interest in or attachment to object like having interest
> > in
> > > a
> > > > > particular type of food, etc. If one stay in Nirvikalp samadhi for
> 21
> > > > days,
> > > > > then body, like dry leaf, would drop off. Some like Sukhdev ji
> > retained
> > > > ego
> > > > > of knowledge. This ego is pseudo and is like a burnt rope or like a
> > > sword
> > > > > which is touched by philosopher's stone (parasmani). Technically it
> > is
> > > > God
> > > > > who is working or expressing himself through the body of Jnani.
> > > > Everything
> > > > > happens spontaneously. Life is a happening.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jivan Mukta Gita and Atma Vidya Vilas would be helpful.
> > > > >
> > > > > If anything remains in mind, then mind is not destroyed. Hence
> > > everything
> > > > > empties. Even Prarabhdha is burned by fire of knowledge.
> > > > >
> > > > > OM
> > > > >
> > > > > Sujal
> > > > >
> > > > > OM
> > > > >
> > > > > Sujal Upadhyay
> > > > >
> > > > > "To disconnect from the self and to become Aware of anything else
> is
> > > > > nothing but unhappiness" - Bhagawan Ramana Maharshi
> > > > >
> > > > > He who has faith has all
> > > > > He who lacks faith, lacks all
> > > > > It is the faith int he name of lord that works wonders
> > > > > FAITH IS LIFE, DOUBT IS DEATH - Sri Ramakrishna
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Nithin Sridhar <
> > > > sridhar.nithin at gmail.com
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > When it is said that Jnani has no Karma, it means that Jnani who
> > > > remains
> > > > > in
> > > > > > Paramartika Dasha, for him no Karma binds. But, a Jivan-Mukta
> > remains
> > > > in
> > > > > > his body till his Prarabda Karma is extinguished. Hence, even
> many
> > > > > > Householders have become Jnani's. The examples can be that of
> King
> > > > Janaka
> > > > > > or Rishi Vashista etc. In the recent times the example of Lahari
> > > > Mahasaya
> > > > > > can be given.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://nithinsridhar.wordpress.com/2013/10/29/random-musings-part-17-the-state-of-jnana/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Nithin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Bhaskar YR <
> > bhaskar.yr at in.abb.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > praNAms Sri Venkatesh prabhuji
> > > > > > > Hare Krishna
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Just my few additional thoughts :
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Advaita Parampara we can see Rishis like Vasishtha, Sakti,
> > > > > Parashara,
> > > > > > > Vyasa and Suka. Those Rishis were householders living with
> wives
> > > and
> > > > > > > children.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > AFAIK, shuka was not a householder, he was a born jnAni,
> > anyway,
> > > > let
> > > > > > > that matter be aside.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They were doing Yajnas regularly. But they were Brahma Jnanis.
> No
> > > > > > > one can deny that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  jnAna and karma cannot go hand in hand, there is an
> elaborated
> > > > > > > discussion on this in shankara's geeta bhAshya.  Here shankara
> > > gives
> > > > > > > details how the paramArtha jnAni cannot engage himself in
> > karma-s.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Upanishad period all Brahma Jnanis were householders only.
> > There
> > > > > were
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > Sanyasis.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  I am afraid, this is rather an exaggerated claim.  prabhuji,
> > do
> > > > you
> > > > > > > have any scriptural reference for this statement?? BTW, I am
> not
> > > able
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > understand this upanishad period!! since tradition holds that
> > > veda-s
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > anAdi, apaurusheya & its doctrine is not time-bound.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Upanishad period the Advaita was followed was different. It
> > was
> > > > like
> > > > > > > Mandana Mishra's Advaita like mixing Jnana and Karma.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  I dont think so, coz., upanishad itself says na karamaNa
> > > > naprajaya,
> > > > > > > tyAgenaike amrutatvamAnashuH...saNyAsa yOga is well documented
> in
> > > > > shruti
> > > > > > > itself.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  A Brahma Jijnasu was doing Yajnas and studying Upanishads also
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > > > same time. It was Jnana
> > > > > > > Karma Samuccaya Vada of Mandana Mishra. Mandana Mishra has
> > praised
> > > > > > Vaidika
> > > > > > > Karmas are important for Brahma Jnana.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >  I think pUrva mImAmsaka-s have described vedAnta (jnAna
> kAnda)
> > > as
> > > > > > > eulogy, arthavAda.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
> > > > > > > bhaskar
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